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Charles Heathco
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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Well, I took 2 lessons in a Chief, my head was jambed against the =
ceiling and the plane had a 120 hp engine and with trim pulled full aft, =
I was pulling the yoke into my chest on every landing. I said the hell =
with it, Im buying a tri gear. I have friends who destroyed a tail =
dragger trying to learn. I have gotten Tweetybird down in swinging 90 =
deg x-wind gusting from 22 to 30k. At the time I had about 10 hrs in =
her, Wind had come up out of nowere. I would have nerver tried the =
stupid across the runway landing that was resently bragged about. Its =
got to be a load of crapp! I will admitt, I was scarred shitless, but =
did suck up a lot of seat. I pranged her on I admit, lucky the prop =
didnt dig in. I got my Pvt in 66 in Cherokee 140 in OKC Will Rogers, so =
knew about wind at the time. I stayed out for 35 yrs, so was sorta =
green, but the old training kicked in. Im sure many of you can relate. =
Charlie Heatho.
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gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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Hey Charlie:
I'll bite, what is this all about.
I gather you are going to buy a Trike. I feel you are justifying
you decision. If you are more comfortable in a trike, than that
is cool. However is it necessary to bash a conventional gear plane
to justify your decision. The items you mention as reasons
are not relevant or clear, to me at least.
What does your friend have to do with it?
What does a Chief and trim have to do with it?
Not all planes fly like a Chief, which I have no time in,
but have time in about 8 taildraggers including a Cub
and over 1000 hours in RV's, plus 11,000 hrs in "Trikes"
Your Chief experience just sounded weird to me?
You mention yoke full back. Comment? It takes what it takes.
Don't you land with the stick back in a RV-A? Not full but back.
You want to land nose up. The landing attitude at touch down
between a RV and RV-A are very similar (identical?), nose up
at least slightly. Some RV's are nose heavy and need full nose-up
trim landing.
I'm not sure what you mean about across the runway landing?
I am guessing you are talking about landing width wise on a
runway? Well I fly for the airlines and 150 ft width is common.
I am not sure I would try 150 ft in my RV, even in a stiff wind.
However most GA runways are only 20-100 feet wide. Even
more sporty. Either find a different runway or go to another
airport if the X-wind is that bad.
It sounds like you where out of flying for a while and you learned
in 1966 in a Trike. There is nothing wrong with a Trike and
if you want one than build it or buy it. Just not sure what this
is about.
You said you landed a TweetyBird in 22-30 kt direct cross winds.
That is pretty good. What is a tweetybird?
I have had my RV in about 20 kts X wind component in gusty conditions.
However you'll start dragging stuff at 25-30kts, unless you crab and use
a combo part side slip and kick it straight from a slight crab.
It does not matter Taildragger or Trike, a RV is a RV and has the
same X-wind component. If anyone has some reason (Aerodynamics
or Physics) that a Trike or Taildragger should be more or less
capable X-wind wise I would love to hear it.
In my experience landing in strong X-winds in a RV-4 there was no
control problem. In fact with tail wheel steering I think it is easier
to taxi a RV in wind than a RV-A because of the swivel nose wheel
and need to drag bakes.
However Charles go buy that Trike and enjoy. Don't worry about it,
but leave my beloved Tail Draggers alone they are fine for me. 
Cheers George ATP/CFI
>From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com>
| Quote: |
Well, I took 2 lessons in a Chief, my head was jambed against the
ceiling and the plane had a 120 hp engine and with trim pulled full
aft, I was pulling the yoke into my chest on every landing. I said the hell
with it, Im buying a tri gear. I have friends who destroyed a tail
dragger trying to learn. I have gotten Tweetybird down in swinging 90
deg x-wind gusting from 22 to 30k. At the time I had about 10 hrs in
her, Wind had come up out of nowere. I would have nerver tried the
stupid across the runway landing that was resently bragged about. Its
got to be a load of crapp! I will admitt, I was scarred shitless, but
did suck up a lot of seat. I pranged her on I admit, lucky the prop
didnt dig in. I got my Pvt in 66 in Cherokee 140 in OKC Will Rogers, so
knew about wind at the time. I stayed out for 35 yrs, so was sorta
green, but the old training kicked in. Im sure many of you can relate.
Charlie Heatho.
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Blab-away for as little as 1/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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december29(at)bellsouth.n
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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Hey George,
Let me answer for Charlie (whom I've never met) so I can clarify some of
the points that you are confused by ("not relevant or clear, to me at
least").
"What does your friend have to do with it?"
I would guess that his friends had problems with and "destroyed a
taildragger" because they are different to takeoff and land than a
nosewheel aircraft. That is Charlie's experience. It is very close and
personal to him. To tell him that his experience is wrong really achieves
nothing. To Charlie, he has seen it, and if he feels more comfortable in a
trike, then to coin your phrase, "that is cool."
"What does a Chief and trim have to do with it?"
I would say that Charlie was running out of control authority (for whatever
reason). Could be the Chief had a heavier engine, could be Charlie weighs
135lbs, could be an IAS error, could be the aircraft was misrigged. The
comment of, "It takes what it takes". (Very constructive)
Guess what, most of the time, true. But when you run out of control
authority you are called a passenger. You have to select another option
(and landing is probably not one of them). Going around on every approach
really cuts into the fun factor of flying.
I will guess on the "across the runway" deal as well. Sometimes, on a
wide runway, you can cheat about 10 degrees of Xwind component away by
landing on the downwind side of the runway and tracking upwind. I know, not
the best plan all the time. But I will apply the "it takes what it takes"
rule, and as you mentioned, another runway may be the better option.
As far as the Xwind issue. We are all not God-gifted aviators like you
(million- hour, 8- taildragger, man-about-town). Actually, as you know, a
taildragger requires more care and feeding in a strong crosswind with
relation of the CG and gear leg location. Since the CG is aft of the gear
in a conventional aircraft, once you run out of control authority (and
brake, if you're really skilled), the tail wants to come around and meet the
nose. It's called a ground loop. Don't find a lot of those in nosedraggers
as when you run out of control authority the airplane is then called a
.......................car.
Charlie wants to buy a nosedragger. Good for him! He is comfortable with
that. For him, it makes his flying fun. He isn't judging anybody, just
giving reasons he likes a nosegear.
Experience can be used like a beacon or a sword (I remember the Sedona
visual illusion, uncontrolled airport, threads.) Decide how to use yours.
I have.
Cheers,
John
ATP/BFD (just want to finish my RVand don't feel like offlisting this one)
Do Not Archive
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mike
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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First off, what's a chief???  If it's small like my kitfox than I guess maybe you need a bigger aircraft, like lets say a maule. I've flown a maule and it's much easier to handle and it's big inside over my kitfox. I've pondered over tail wheel or tri, I have the solution for me. Keep the fox and have an rv7a. When I want to get wild and crazy, I'll take up the kitfox. If I want to get wild and crazy, I'll take up the rv7a. I don't think it matters any. I'm sure each one will have its own tickle spot. Of course what will probably happen is I'll put floats on the fox and enjoy that world as well. I don't think any certain airplane much matters as long as YOU are enjoying what you have. One thing for certain, DON'T own an aircraft that somebody else wants, own what YOU want. 
kitfoxmike
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Ollie Washburn
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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Ahhhh-my age really shows when there are people on here that don't know what
a Chief is.
Ollie 6A Central Fl.
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Ollie RV6-A & Rans S7S
Central FL |
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cfi1513840
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Tri gear VS tail dragger |
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Don't worry about your age Ollie. Everyone (well, almost) knows that it's an
Aeronca Chief, big brother to a Champ.
Ken
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Ken Howell
Glenwood Maryland
RV-7 Wings |
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