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prop for 447 on UltraStar?

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

My UltraStar currently has the original Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver 

prop.  I just acquired a 447, which I plan to install.  Can anybody tell me 

what is a good prop for this combination?  I believe (need to confirm) that 

it's a 2.58 ratio B box.  I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited diameter 

possible on the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even 

smaller than 50" to give better ground clearance?



A friend gave me the engine in the interest of me being quieter than I am 

with the 447; a number of people have commented on how loud my plane is.



Also for anybody who's flown the US with both engines, how much performance 

increase should I expect?  I calculate about 350fpm better climb in theory.



-Dana

--

Art and technical perfection are not the same thing in cars, and hard-core 

car buffs often prefer art.  Which is why they own so many tools.

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I bought a Tennessee prop last year I think it was when I was flying the Duc. It was great, and it looked great. Still looks good. They make some mighty fine looking stuff, and the price is good too. Never thought I'd like a wooden prop; now I do. I also fixed the old prop with Gorilla glue and fiber glass after some ground damage. It was an emergency repair to meet a flight schedule. So I am ever more convinced about the virtues of  wood prop. I doubt you'd do better than the same prop I had on the 430. When I called them the fellow that answered the phone knew what prop I needed and sent me that one. 

447 is a rotax,,, I had the Cuyana, in any event the Tennessee prop was very good choice for me, and pretty as it gets.



---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote: 



=============




My UltraStar currently has the original Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver 

prop.  I just acquired a 447, which I plan to install.  Can anybody tell me 

what is a good prop for this combination?  I believe (need to confirm) that 

it's a 2.58 ratio B box.  I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited diameter 

possible on the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even 

smaller than 50" to give better ground clearance?



A friend gave me the engine in the interest of me being quieter than I am 

with the 447; a number of people have commented on how loud my plane is.



Also for anybody who's flown the US with both engines, how much performance 

increase should I expect?  I calculate about 350fpm better climb in theory.



-Dana

--

Art and technical perfection are not the same thing in cars, and hard-core 

car buffs often prefer art.  Which is why they own so many tools.

--

kugelair.com

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

Dana,



Can't comment first hand on a prop for a 447 powered UltraStar but had a PowerFin on my 447 early Firestar and an IVO on my 377 powered even earlier Firestar. Both were good props but I now have a Tennessee prop on the Slingshot. 



I really like the TN prop and the company is unbeatable for customer service. 



Customer Service Story:

When I bought the Slingshot with this prop, it was black plastic coated from the factory per the builder's request to match his color scheme. When I flew it through a light rain shower, the outer 6-8" of each blade showed damage to the black plastic coating, none to the blade itself. At that time I measured the pitch of both blades since it was not turning up as close to redline as I wanted in S&L flight. It turned out there was about 3/4 degree difference in pitch between the blades. I removed the prop, called TPI and they told me to send it back, which I did. Per my request they reduced the pitch a little and evened them up and refinished it with their natural clear coat polyurethane, a true work of art. I wish I had a photo of it to post. They sent it back and asked me to report back after flying with it. The pitch difference was now almost not measurable and it turns up to within 50 rpm of redline, just like I asked for. They did this absolutely free of charge, even though I was not the original purchaser of this over 5 year old prop.



http://www.tn-prop.com/prop.htm is now my first choice in prop vendors where a wood prop is appropriate.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

Ron, Thom,



 What I'm really looking for is input on prop pitch, diameter, and number of blades... of course pitch doesn't matter if I get an adjustable prop.



 I like wood props too, but a tough prop like a WD (Ellery's adventure notwithstanding) is attractive for an airplane with as low prop ground clearance as the UltraStar.



 I'm leery of Powerfin, because I watched a Kolb crash after the Powerfin came apart apparently due to internal damage... they're just not as robust as a WD or Ivo.  I had good results with a GSC adjustable (wood blades) on my PPG.  I'd try the original prop, but the rotation direction is opposite.



 Hmmm... I see I may have to change out the redrive, if it's a 2.58 ratio as I believe... Tenesee calls for 58-68" props for that ratio; I'd need a 2:1 redrive for the 50" prop that would fit on the US.



 -Dana



 At 01:39 PM 2/20/2011, Thom Riddle wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>



 Dana,



 Can't comment first hand on a prop for a 447 powered UltraStar but had a PowerFin on my 447 early Firestar and an IVO on my 377 powered even earlier Firestar. Both were good props but I now have a Tennessee prop on the Slingshot. 



 I really like the TN prop and the company is unbeatable for customer service. 	


 --

 When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... 

 Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you  

 rejoice.

 -- Cherokee saying

   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

What I'm really looking for is input on prop pitch, diameter, and number of

blades... of course pitch doesn't matter if I get an adjustable prop.



 -Dana



Dana:



US is a good little aircraft, but also had some weaknesses.  One was prop to 

ground and tailboom clearance, which limits max prop diameter to 50" on the 

Cuyuna and Kolb reduction drive.



On my 447 powered original FS, I was dialed in with a Jim Culver 60X30 two 

blade wooden prop with polyurethane leading edge.



I think if I was going to power an US with a 447 I would go with a 3 blade 

WD and nickle steel leading edges on the blades.



Position of gear box and prop flange will dictate max prop diameter.



Better yet, sell the US and get an original FS powered with the 447 and a 

60X30 two blade wooden prop.  With a wind shield and cockpit you can 

actually read a map while you fly.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

Dana,



There is no arguing against the advantages of an adjustable pitch prop. I had an in-flight adjustable GSC on my old Titan and had no complaints. Did you know that TN Prop makes a four blade? Not pushing any brand, just relating my experiences, as are the others.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

At 03:48 PM 2/20/2011, Thom Riddle wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>



 Dana,



 There is no arguing against the advantages of an adjustable pitch prop. I had an in-flight adjustable GSC on my old Titan and had no complaints. Did you know that TN Prop makes a four blade? Not pushing any brand, just relating my experiences, as are the others. 	


 Can't do a four blade.  I need to fold the wings.



 -Dana

 --

 For every new foolproof invention there is a new and improved fool.    

    [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

At 03:34 PM 2/20/2011, John Hauck wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  US is a good little aircraft, but also had some weaknesses.  One was prop to 

 ground and tailboom clearance, which limits max prop diameter to 50" on the 

 Cuyuna and Kolb reduction drive. 	


 Yes, that's why I'm hoping an extra 5HP with a three blade prop might give me a bit better performance.



  	  Quote: 	
		  I think if I was going to power an US with a 447 I would go with a 3 blade 

 WD and nickle steel leading edges on the  blades. 	


  From what I understand, the WD has too much inertia for the B box, no?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Position of gear box and prop flange will dictate max prop diameter. 	


 Yes, that's one issue that concerns me... the Rotax gearbox puts the prop shaft closer to the engine crank, i.e. closer to the ground (with the original engine mount).  I might gain boom clearance, but lose it on the ground side.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Better yet, sell the US and get an original FS powered with the 447 and a 

 60X30 two blade wooden prop.  With a wind shield and cockpit you can 

 actually read a map while you fly. 	


 .. and lose the visibility.  Not that I haven't thought about it (or better yet, a Firefly)... but it isn't in the budget right now.



 Hmmm, I wonder what I could find an engineless FS or FF for?  I've got an engine...



 -Dana

 --

 For every new foolproof invention there is a new and improved fool.    

    [quote][b]

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I'd say call them up and talk to them, they really know their stuff there.

I am sure they'd be able to recommend something good for your mission.



Ron (at) KFHU



===============================



---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote: 



=============

Ron, Thom,



What I'm really looking for is input on prop pitch, diameter, and number of 

blades... of course pitch doesn't matter if I get an adjustable prop.



I like wood props too, but a tough prop like a WD (Ellery's adventure 

notwithstanding) is attractive for an airplane with as low prop ground 

clearance as the UltraStar.



I'm leery of Powerfin, because I watched a Kolb crash after the Powerfin 

came apart apparently due to internal damage... they're just not as robust 

as a WD or Ivo.  I had good results with a GSC adjustable (wood blades) on 

my PPG.  I'd try the original prop, but the rotation direction is opposite.



Hmmm... I see I may have to change out the redrive, if it's a 2.58 ratio as 

I believe... Tenesee calls for 58-68" props for that ratio; I'd need a 2:1 

redrive for the 50" prop that would fit on the US.



-Dana



At 01:39 PM 2/20/2011, Thom Riddle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Dana,



Can't comment first hand on a prop for a 447 powered UltraStar but had a 

PowerFin on my 447 early Firestar and an IVO on my 377 powered even 

earlier Firestar. Both were good props but I now have a Tennessee prop on 

the Slingshot.



I really like the TN prop and the company is unbeatable for customer service.


	


--

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced...

Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you

rejoice.

-- Cherokee saying



--

kugelair.com

Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4  blade Ultra Prop.  Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the  pitch I used.

     First thing I had to do was have  the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio.

      My overall preference is for  the 2 blade prop.  Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time  I used it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could  stay on.  I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold  over it.

    Another thing I noticed was the 4 blade  prop took a little longer to wind up, because of the extra weight.  It was  also a little noticeable in maneuvering, giving a gyroscopic lag to changing  direction.  But not much really.  The four blade was a bit quieter  than the 2 blade prop.

    I only flew it a couple times with the  original Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb  rate............but it's very good with the Rotax.  I was getting about  800  fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the  machine).

      I tried to sell my  equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked way too much, so it's still all  available.  Maybe you need an engine mount for that  Rotax?

   In a message dated 2/19/2011 8:36:23 P.M.  Central Standard Time, d-m-hague(at)comcast.net writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague    <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>



My UltraStar currently has the original    Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver 

prop.  I just acquired a 447,    which I plan to install.  Can anybody tell me 

what is a good prop for    this combination?  I believe (need to confirm) that 

it's a 2.58 ratio    B box.  I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited diameter 

possible on    the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even 

smaller than    50" to give better ground clearance?



A friend gave me the engine in the    interest of me being quieter than I am 

with the 447; a number of people    have commented on how loud my plane is.



Also for anybody who's flown    the US with both engines, how much performance 

increase should I    expect?  I calculate about 350fpm better climb in    theory.



-Dana

--

Art and technical perfection are not the same    thing in cars, and hard-core 

car buffs often prefer art.  Which is    why they own so many  e  ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;                             



	


 [quote][b]

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his Ultrastar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this thread, I realize that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his wings to get in the hangar.



Also, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio." 

I've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this just too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio?



Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm

 

 "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                       Helen Keller

 

 "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."



--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com <Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com <Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com>

Subject: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 4:47 PM



     I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4  blade Ultra Prop.  Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the  pitch I used.

     First thing I had to do was have  the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio.

      My overall preference is for  the 2 blade prop.  Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time  I used it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could  stay on.  I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold  over it.

    Another thing I noticed was the 4 blade  prop took a little longer to wind up, because of the extra weight.  It was  also a little noticeable in maneuvering, giving a gyroscopic lag to changing  direction.  But not much really.  The four blade was a bit quieter  than the 2 blade prop.

    I only flew it a couple times with the  original Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb  rate...........but it's very good with the Rotax.  I was getting about  800  fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the  machine).

      I tried to sell my  equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked way too much, so it's still all  available.  Maybe you need an engine mount for that  Rotax?

   In a message dated 2/19/2011 8:36:23 P.M.  Central Standard Time, d-m-hague(at)comcast.net writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague    <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>



My UltraStar currently has the original    Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver 

prop.  I just acquired a 447,    which I plan to install.  Can anybody tell me 

what is a good prop for    this combination?  I believe (need to confirm) that 

it's a 2.58 ratio    B box.  I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited diameter 

possible on    the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even 

smaller than    50" to give better ground clearance?



A friend gave me the engine in the    interest of me being quieter than I am 

with the 447; a number of people    have commented on how loud my plane is.



Also for anybody who's flown    the US with both engines, how much performance 

increase should I    expect?  I calculate about 350fpm better climb in    theory.



-Dana

--

Art and technical perfection are not the same    thing in cars, and hard-core 

car buffs often prefer art.  Which is    why they own so many  e  ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;                             



	


  	  Quote: 	
		  ="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://ww rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">htgt; 	


	
 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

At 08:44 PM 2/22/2011, TheWanderingWench wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his Ultrastar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this thread, I realize that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his wings to get in the hangar.



 Also, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio." 

 I've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this just too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio? 	


 Arty, what diameter is your Ultraprop?  The US is limited to 50", which isn't all that big.  If your 503 was turning it with a 2.58 box it would probably be too much for a 447.



 I would think a 4 blade prop on a 447 would have to set to a really flat pitch to spin up to speed with a 2:1 box; GSC and WD recommend a 2 blade prop for that ratio.



 How did the Ultraprop work for you?  I don't hear real good things about them... since you have it to loan to your friend I assume you replaced it with something else?



 -Dana

 --

 "You sure it's broken?  Let me make sure..."

    [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

At 07:47 PM 2/22/2011, Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4 blade Ultra Prop.  Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the pitch I used.

     First thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio. 	


 That's what I though I needed to do, but both the GSC and WD people say their 3 blade is OK with the 2.58, though I'd need a 2 blade if I regeared the box to 2:1..



  	  Quote: 	
		       My overall preference is for the 2 blade prop.  Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time I used it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could stay on.  I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold over it. 	


 The wings will clear a 3 but not a 4, so the 4 is out.  Were both of yours 50" diameter?



 

  	  Quote: 	
		     I only flew it a couple times with the original Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb rate............but it's very good with the Rotax.  I was getting about 800  fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the machine). 	


 That's good to hear... I think mine is around 500 with the Cuyuna.



  	  Quote: 	
		       I tried to sell my equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked way too much, so it's still all available.  Maybe you need an engine mount for that Rotax? 	


 Maybe... what does the Rotax mount look like?  I was thinking of an adapter plate for the Cuyuna mount, but that will put the prop lower than the original, so less ground clearance.  Were you trying to sell the whole plane or just bits and pieces?



 -Dana

 

 --

 "You sure it's broken?  Let me make sure..."

    [quote][b]

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I've gotten lots of flak for using an Ultraprop - folks are constantly telling me that it is very inefficient and a poor choice. Since I've never flown my Drifter with another prop, I have no comparison as to efficiency factors. I stuck with the Ultraprop because of its extreme hardiness, which I've never seen matched in another prop. I've had small screws go through it, and it just kept flying. When it gets dinged, the cracks never travel. It's very easy to repair in the field. And since I do a lot of rough field out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere landings, that's extremely important to me.



I'm not giving up on the ultraprop; I've just put my Drifter in storage for a while, since I bought a Talon. Since I won't be using the Drifter, I figured I could loan the Ultraprop to a friend. But I'll have to measure it, since it very well may be longer than the 50"  limit you said an Ultrastar can take.



Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm

 

 "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                       Helen Keller

 

 "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."



--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 6:10 PM



 At 08:44 PM 2/22/2011, TheWanderingWench wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his Ultrastar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this thread, I realize that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his wings to get in the hangar.



 Also, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio." 

 I've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this just too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio? 	


 Arty, what diameter is your Ultraprop?  The US is limited to 50", which isn't all that big.  If your 503 was turning it with a 2.58 box it would probably be too much for a 447.



 I would think a 4 blade prop on a 447 would have to set to a really flat pitch to spin up to speed with a 2:1 box; GSC and WD recommend a 2 blade prop for that ratio.



 How did the Ultraprop work for you?  I don't hear real good things about them... since you have it to loan to your friend I assume you replaced it with something else?



 -Dana

 --

 "You sure it's broken?  Let me make sure..."

     	  Quote: 	
		  	


	
 [quote][b]

slowaero

Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I this one had a three blade IVO.

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Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

I started with the 2 blade prop, and found it just  wouldn't contain the power of the engine with the 2.58:1 ratio.  Engine  would just over rev.  Spinning the prop faster with the 2:1 ratio made it  all good, the rpms can be contained at about 6200 at full power.  Never did  try the 2.58:1 gears with the 4 blade prop.

    I think I've read that you would want at  least a 60 inch prop for the 2.58:1 ratio, but they might have been talking a 2  blade prop too.

  

  In a message dated 2/22/2011 7:46:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,  thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		                      I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade          ultraprop for his Ultrastar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this          thread, I realize that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his          wings to get in the hangar.



Also, you write that: "the first          thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio." 

I've          been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this just          too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio?



Arty          Trost

Sandy,          Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm



"Life's          a daring adventure or nothing"

Helen Keller



"I refuse to tip          toe through life just to arrive safely at death."



--- On Tue,          2/22/11, Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com <Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com>          wrote:

          	  Quote: 	
		  

From:            Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com <Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com>

Subject: Re:            prop for 447 on UltraStar?

To:            kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 4:47            PM



                      I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop,            and a 4 blade Ultra Prop.  Both are ground adjustable, but I            don't remember the pitch I used.

               First thing I had to do            was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio.

                My overall            preference is for the 2 blade prop.  Because I had to fold and            trailer the machine every time I used it, the 4 blade prop had to be            removed every time, and the 2 blade could stay on.  I never tried            a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold over            it.

              Another thing I noticed was the            4 blade prop took a little longer to wind up, because of the extra            weight.  It was also a little noticeable in maneuvering, giving a            gyroscopic lag to changing direction.  But not much really.             The four blade was a bit quieter than the 2 blade            prop.

              I only flew it a couple times            with the original Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak            about the climb rate............but it's very good with the            Rotax.  I was getting about 800  fpm, until I gained some            weight (me not the machine).

                I tried to            sell my equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked way too            much, so it's still all available.  Maybe you need an engine            mount for that Rotax?

             In a message dated 2/19/2011 8:36:23            P.M. Central Standard Time, d-m-hague(at)comcast.net writes:

                       	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague              <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>



My UltraStar currently has the              original Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver 

prop.  I just              acquired a 447, which I plan to install.  Can anybody tell me              

what is a good prop for this combination?  I believe (need              to confirm) that 

it's a 2.58 ratio B box.  I'm thinking 3              blades due to the limited diameter 

possible on the US, can't go              4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even 

smaller than 50" to              give better ground clearance?



A friend gave me the engine in              the interest of me being quieter than I am 

with the 447; a              number of people have commented on how loud my plane is.



Also              for anybody who's flown the US with both engines, how much              performance 

increase should I expect?  I calculate about              350fpm better climb in theory.



-Dana

--

Art and              technical perfection are not the same thing in cars, and hard-core              

car buffs often prefer art.  Which is why they own so many              e ies ay              - MATRONICS              WEB FORUMS            - List              Contribution Web Site p;                                                 



	


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Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: prop for 447 on UltraStar?

Both props are 50 inch.

     I looked through all my pics, and  don't have a decent shot of the engine mount.  It will be spring before I  can get to the machine to take pics.

      Considering selling it   intact, or parting it out.  Here's the original sale posting I made last  year:

  

  

    I guess I have to be realistic and say I won't be  rebuilding my UltraStar, and might as well part it out  now.

    I'd love to sell intact, but it's a bit  overweight, and I missed the deadline to grandfather into Sport Pilot.   Here's what I got:

  

     wings need  fabric.

   Rotax 447 with B gearbox. Point  ignition.  Probably time for a rebuild, I put on 300 hours, after  I got it used with no record of hours.   It's got the 2:1 gear  ratio in the gearbox, and I have the other gear that makes it 1.56:1  (i  think that's what it was)

    Matco hydraulic brakes, not  differential.

      BRS  chute.

      Flaperon function, my own  design.  This cannot be separated from the airframe.

   2 props........a 2 blade wood  Precision adjustable and a 4 blade UltraProp adjustable.   

   Instruments:  dual cylinder temp.   dual exhaust temp.  tachometer. speedometer.  altimeter.

     Original set of 2 gas tanks,  holding 3 gallons between them.  5 gallon seat tank.

      Com helmet.  Delcom  handheld radio.  

    Open trailer custom fit to the  UltraStar.

    Make me offers for parts, or all of it  together.  Machine is located in Central Wisconsin.

      Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com (Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com)



  In a message dated 2/22/2011 8:15:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,  d-m-hague(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  At 07:47 PM 2/22/2011, Masqqqqqqq(at)aol.com wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4 blade Ultra      Prop.  Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the pitch I      used.

    First thing I had to      do was have the B box converted to a 2:1    ratio. 	


That's what I though I needed to do, but    both the GSC and WD people say their 3 blade is OK with the 2.58, though I'd    need a 2 blade if I regeared the box to 2:1..



    	  Quote: 	
		       My overall preference is for the 2      blade prop.  Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time I      used it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade      could stay on.  I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings      can fold over it. 	


The wings will clear a 3 but not    a 4, so the 4 is out.  Were both of yours 50" diameter?

    	  Quote: 	
		     I only flew it a couple times with the original      Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb      rate............but it's very good with the Rotax.  I was getting about      800  fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the    machine). 	


That's good to hear... I think mine is    around 500 with the Cuyuna.



    	  Quote: 	
		       I tried to sell my equipment about a      year ago, and I guess I asked way too much, so it's still all      available.  Maybe you need an engine mount for that    Rotax? 	


Maybe... what does the Rotax mount look    like?  I was thinking of an adapter plate for the Cuyuna mount, but that    will put the prop lower than the original, so less ground clearance.     Were you trying to sell the whole plane or just bits and    pieces?



-Dana



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