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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin |
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I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style strap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar extension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a 24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it stuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched all the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I punched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through. I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes on the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and the 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. From there, I used the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come off the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened that there is no describing it.
PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2 TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
See pics.
This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remove. This is the tightest one though.
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mel(at)becknet.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin |
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Gary,
It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a warped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly give way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on the hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes that's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end is just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise grip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a handle is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-6289409.html
Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubricant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of removal, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to 22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapter plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your method could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an oil filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged, but I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
-mel
On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style strap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar extension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a 24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it stuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched all the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I punched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through. I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes on the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and the 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. From there, I used the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come off the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened that there is no describing it.
PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2 TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
See pics.
This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remove. This is the tightest one though.
<IMG_0759.jpg>
<IMG_0761.jpg>
<IMG_0763.jpg>
<IMG_0766.jpg>
<IMG_0767.jpg>
<IMG_0769.jpg>
|
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin |
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Blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling,
I've been installing oil filters on airplanes for 35 years. I use the engine oil and I tighten as I said. I've never had one leak.
As for warping the surface. Are you serious? The gasket will blow out and the engine will catch fire? You can't be serious.
You use an automotive type filter? you mean filter wrench.
Quit overworking the problem. Tighten as I say and you won't need anything fancy to remove the next one.
From: Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:25:22 PM
Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
Gary,
It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a warped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly give way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on the hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes that's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end is just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise grip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a handle is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-6289409.html
Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubricant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of removal, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to 22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapter plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your method could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an oil filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged, but I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
-mel
On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style strap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar extension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a 24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it stuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched all the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I punched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through. I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes on the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and the 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. From there, I used the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come off the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened that there is no describing it.
PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2 TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
See pics.
This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remove. This is the tightest one though.
<IMG_0759.jpg>
<IMG_0761.jpg>
<IMG_0763.jpg>
<IMG_0766.jpg>
<IMG_0767.jpg>
<IMG_0769.jpg>
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin |
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Mel, you wrote that the gasket shrinks. Oil soaked gaskets shrink. That's a good one.
Given that as a basis, removing the oil filter should always be easier than installing them. In fact, on airplanes that get the oil filter changed once a year, the oil filter should not even be tight; it should be leaking.
I've got two customers who change their oil only at the annual. One customer had over 125 hours since oil change. Let's disregard his reasoning for this discussion. Using my method still requires vice grips to get the filter started for removal.
Based on your reasoning, the oil filter needs the safety wire to keep it in place. Just for shits and grins, for 2 years, I purposely safety wired the oil filter on my plane with up to an inch of slack in the safety wire. The oil filter never worked loose in 230 hours of flying.
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 10:06:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
Blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling,
I've been installing oil filters on airplanes for 35 years. I use the engine oil and I tighten as I said. I've never had one leak.
As for warping the surface. Are you serious? The gasket will blow out and the engine will catch fire? You can't be serious.
You use an automotive type filter? you mean filter wrench.
Quit overworking the problem. Tighten as I say and you won't need anything fancy to remove the next one.
From: Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:25:22 PM
Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
Gary,
It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a warped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly give way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on the hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes that's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end is just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise grip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a handle is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-6289409.html
Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubricant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of removal, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to 22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapter plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your method could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an oil filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged, but I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
-mel
On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style strap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar extension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a 24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it stuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched all the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I punched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through. I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes on the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and the 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. From there, I used the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come off the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened that there is no describing it.
PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2 TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
See pics.
This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remove. This is the tightest one though.
<IMG_0759.jpg>
<IMG_0761.jpg>
<IMG_0763.jpg>
<IMG_0766.jpg>
<IMG_0767.jpg>
<IMG_0769.jpg>
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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