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Current draw for lighting Buss

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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

Hi all,

  

 I am wiring my panel.  It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30,  Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.  Each has a pin to control the brightness  on a separate lighting buss.  I was going to use B&C's dimmer  circuit.  What I can't seem to find is what the current draw for lighting  is likely to be.  The specific question is, which B&C dimmer do I  need.

  

 Anyone know the answer?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Wiring

 San Ramon, CA

  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have     set these 3 units up for dimming?  I have a Perihelion dimmer in     place but no plan for applying it to these 3 units.  I just couldn't     figure out what to do.

     

     Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson

     

     [quote]                              Hi all,

          

         I am wiring my panel.  It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel,           SL30, Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.  Each has a pin to           control the brightness on a separate lighting buss.  I was           going to use B&C's dimmer circuit.  What I can't seem to           find is what the current draw for lighting is likely to be.            The specific question is, which B&C dimmer do I need.

          

         Anyone know the answer?

          

         Regards,

          

         Michael Wynn

         RV 8 Wiring

         San Ramon, CA

       

     [b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming?  I think you should verify that feature and only manual dim the ones that can't.

Most things can.

Tim





On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:



[quote]      I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have     set these 3 units up for dimming?  I have a Perihelion dimmer in     place but no plan for applying it to these 3 units.  I just couldn't     figure out what to do.

     

     Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                                Hi all,

          

         I am wiring my panel.  It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel,           SL30, Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.  Each has a pin to           control the brightness on a separate lighting buss.  I was           going to use B&C's dimmer circuit.  What I can't seem to           find is what the current draw for lighting is likely to be.            The specific question is, which B&C dimmer do I need.

          

         Anyone know the answer?

          

         Regards,

          

         Michael Wynn

         RV 8 Wiring

         San Ramon, CA

       

     

	


[b]

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

That's what I was sort of thinking but didn't finish the     investigation.Â  Autodimming is good and I won't mind have an unused     dimmer.Â  Right now, I'm just dimming my Honeywell lit rockers and     indicators.

     

     I assume that for autodimming, no physicalÂ  installation action is     required?Â  Just turn it on (configure it)Â  and it figures out what     to do.

     

     [quote]       Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming? Â I think you should         verify that feature and only manual dim the ones that can't.

       Most things can.

       Tim

         

         

       

       

         On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>         wrote:

         

       

        	  Quote: 	
		            I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how           people have set these 3 units up for dimming?Â  I have a           Perihelion dimmer in place but no plan for applying it to           these 3 units.Â  I just couldn't figure out what to do.

           

           Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather"           Watson

           

            	  Quote: 	
		                  Hi all,

               Â 

               I am wiring my panel.Â  It includes a PMA 8000 audio                 panel, SL30, Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.Â  Each has                 a pin to control the brightness on a separate lighting                 buss.Â  I was going to use B&C's dimmer circuit.Â                  What I can't seem to find is what the current draw for                 lighting is likely to be.Â  The specific question is,                 which B&C dimmer do I need.

               Â 

               Anyone know the answer?

             

           	
         

       	
     [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

At 01:58 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,

  

 I am wiring my panel.  It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30, Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.  Each has a pin to control the brightness on a separate lighting buss.  I was going to use B&C's dimmer circuit.  What I can't seem to find is what the current draw for lighting is likely to be.  The specific question is, which B&C dimmer do I need.

  

 Anyone know the answer? 	


   In days of yore, the dimmer input line to a panel mounted

   accessory was a direct power supply to incandescent lamps

   scattered about the panel of the accessory. The dimmer

   input did indeed have a small but significant POWER

   requirement. It was this lighting philosophy that gave rise

   to dimmer products designed to handle power . . . the largest

   of the B&C dimmers would handle a panel full of post lights

   and a center stack stuffed with radios. The 1960 Cessna

   310 had two (count 'em) TWO fat rheostats on the center

   console for panel dimming. Under some lighting conditions

   these were so hot that you could not touch the panel

   around the knob that controlled the rheostat.



   Modern lighting technologies are all over the map. Florescent,

   electro-luminescent, LED, gas discharge, etc . . . To further

   complicate matters, they do not all share the same dimming

   curves (apparent brightness versus applied voltage). The

   transition to mixed technology illumination was well under

   way by the 80's. I wrote a specification for the Gates-Piaggio

   180 for a 3 channel dimmer controlled by one knob but with

   independently adjustable dimming curves to accommodate

   a variety of technologies.



   The installation manual for each of these accessories should

   call out the current draw for the dimmer controls. It may

   well be that these control pins do not supply power to

   the lighting components but only send a signal to the

   internal power supply that services those components.

   In this case, the control current may be measured in

   a handful of milliamps. Further, the dimming characteristics

   may be tailored to the legacy incandescent curve.



   Long non-answer. The short answer is you'll have to research

   the installation data that should be included in documents

   supplied with the accessories. It's a SURE bet that

   dimmer inputs of any stripe will not be damaged by

   a linearly variable dimmer control input. It probably

   won't be damaged by duty-cycle switched dimmers but the

   switching frequency of the duty-cycle dimmer might

   produce strange behaviors of the dimming function.



   You should check this out with the manufacture's

   field services folks or some knowledgeable installer.



   Has anyone on the List resolved these questions?



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

As for autodimming, yes they all do this.  A friend with a 430  tells me that it autodims so dim that he can't see it.  He goes through the  menu to adjust the brightness manually every time he flies at night.   Seemed like during construction was the best time to address the issue.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Wiring

 San Ramon, CA

  

  In a message dated 3/17/2011 7:43:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  That's    what I was sort of thinking but didn't finish the investigation.     Autodimming is good and I won't mind have an unused dimmer.  Right now,    I'm just dimming my Honeywell lit rockers and indicators.



I assume that    for autodimming, no physical  installation action is required?  Just    turn it on (configure it)  and it figures out what to do.



    	  Quote: 	
		       Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming?  I think you should      verify that feature and only manual dim the ones that can't.

     Most things can.

     Tim



     

On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

      	  Quote: 	
		         I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have set        these 3 units up for dimming?  I have a Perihelion dimmer in place        but no plan for applying it to these 3 units.  I just couldn't figure        out what to do.



Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting        weather" Watson



        	  Quote: 	
		           Hi all,

          

         I am wiring my panel.  It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel,          SL30, Garmin 430W and 327 transponder.  Each has a pin to control          the brightness on a separate lighting buss.  I was going to use          B&C's dimmer circuit.  What I can't seem to find is what the          current draw for lighting is likely to be.  The specific question          is, which B&C dimmer do I need.

          

         Anyone know the    answer?



	


	




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  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

Tundra10

Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

 	  Quote: 	
		   Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming?  I think you should verify that fe

 ature and only manual dim the ones that can't.

 Most things can.

 Tim


	


My Garmin 430W is autodimming, but the function is adversely affected  

in my Cessna 172 by the overhead red light that gently illuminates the  

entire panel.  It took a lot of playing with the (non-intuitive)  

dimming curve to make it work properly.  I was unable to truly  

simulate in flight at night lighting conditions on the ground, because  

the exact level of the overhead light was significant.  Having my hand  

in front of the unit to press the buttons affected it too.  I have it  

balanced now, but changing the overhead light level messes it up 



On my Tundra, I intend to try to make the manual dimming mode work  

with whatever dimmers I choose, which will give me more direct  

control.  I guess the other option would be to not provide general  

illumination for the panel, which would require reverse lighting of  

all the switch labels.



Jeff Page

Dream Aircraft Tundra #10

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss

Two things:



1) It is BUS not BUSS.



2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full of small incandescent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series. So--consider it important to use LEDs in your airplane.



And get rid of those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four things.

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

Thanks, Eric

  

 All this time, I though bus was what you drove and buss was where the power  was.  I guess the real buss is a kiss and kisses, while powerful, don't  actually carry current (although they can be electrifying).

  

 I understand the LED advantage and plan to illuminate the panel with an LED  strip.  I was looking at a lighting bus just for the avionics.  It  would only carry the current necessary for the four radios.  I can't  imagine it is more than a amp or two.  Do you have any idea?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Wiring

 San Ramon (land of the functionally illiterate)

  

  In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:40:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  emjones(at)charter.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  [img]res://C:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Program\web_ie.dll/QMARK.GIF[/img][img]res://C:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Program\web_ie.dll/ARROW.GIF[/img]-->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"    <emjones(at)charter.net>



Two things:



1) It is BUS not    BUSS.



2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent    indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full    of small incandescent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series.    So--consider it important to use LEDs in your airplane.



And get rid of    those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four    things.



--------

Eric M. Jones

www.PerihelionDesign.com

113    Brentwood Drive

Southbridge, MA 01550

(508)    764-2072

emjones(at)charter.net





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334302#334302===============================================

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  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: Current draw for lighting Buss

I'm just guessing here but I imagine at least some of these just use the dimmer input as a reference source. You will have to call the various mfg's to know for sure. 

Tim



Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 18, 2011, at 3:23 PM, MLWynn(at)aol.com (MLWynn(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote]  Thanks, Eric

  

 All this time, I though bus was what you drove and buss was where the power  was.  I guess the real buss is a kiss and kisses, while powerful, don't  actually carry current (although they can be electrifying).

  

 I understand the LED advantage and plan to illuminate the panel with an LED  strip.  I was looking at a lighting bus just for the avionics.  It  would only carry the current necessary for the four radios.  I can't  imagine it is more than a amp or two.  Do you have any idea?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Wiring

 San Ramon (land of the functionally illiterate)

  

  In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:40:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  [img]res://C:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Program\web_ie.dll/QMARK.GIF[/img][img]res://C:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Program\web_ie.dll/ARROW.GIF[/img]-->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"    <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>



Two things:



1) It is BUS not    BUSS.



2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent    indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full    of small incandescent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series.    So--consider it important to use LEDs in your airplane.



And get rid of    those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four    things.



--------

Eric M. Jones

www.PerihelionDesign.com

113    Brentwood Drive

Southbridge, MA 01550

(508)    764-2072

emjones(at)charter.net





Read this topic online  = Use   utilities  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


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