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A Newbie from Malaysia
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tosh_lincoln(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hello,



My name is Steve from Malaysia am happy to be part and member of the forum as am looking into building Zodiac 640 from plans and would to know who is here also shearing same thought with me. Am totally a  novice into building plane but would like you experts here to please help me along my  project. Please is there anybody building from plans here?



Regards,



Steve



 

 [quote][b]

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hey Steve Welcome!



Building from plans is ambitious! Good luck. I am building from a kit, and am about 80% done with the right wing. I ask for help on the forum all the time and everyone is eager to offer advise and it's good advice too. Look back through the topics and I'll bet some of your questions you might be thinking of have already been asked. The CH-640 plans can be a bit vague and confusing at times. Don't hesitate to ask questions before building something if you are confused. I have had to go back and re-do several things because I didn't fully understand what the plans were telling me to do until  AFTER I had already done it. See you around the forum, good luck!



Mark

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Welcome Steve!

There was a fellow, Christian Trembly I believe, who was building from plans, but he has since abandoned his project in favor of a certified aircraft.

I am building from a kit, and between Mark and myself, I think we are about the only two active 640 builders on here. There are a few others who have already completed their aircraft, who will pop in from time to time and help with questions though.

There are some claims of errors in the drawings, as respect to some parts, so study the plans carefully. They can be a bit vague at times.

We rarely get input here from Zenair. I think they have lost interest in the 640. Their big market effort now is in LSA and the models made in Missouri.

Best of luck to you, we'll help when we can. I Still think the 640 is the most economical and easy to build for it's load class, although maybe not the fastest.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

Christian Tremblay

Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hello Steve and gang,



Welcome Steve, to the group, if building from plan it's more chanlenging, it

give you full control, and at any phases, you can buy any completed

components from zenith.



Rudder, Tail wing, Left wing completed at 100%. Right wing at 50% (wing

spar, aileron and flap completed 100%)

With extended tank buyed from Zenith. The projet is still on hold, because I

buyed last year an Beechcraft B24R.



I'am searching for a partner to complete the projet or for buy it as is.

Question of curiosity, do you have facilities stores to buy pieces like

Aircraft Spruce in USA and CND ?



Good luck



Christian T.

 

 



--

_________________
Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc
A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059
www.zodiac640.com

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Thank you guys for the warm welcome, I do appreciate it alot and am happy to be part of the group.



Well why am considering to build from plan is I totally want to know in details of building and in full control as Christian have said, moreover I would like to buy sub-kits from Zenair, but they never reply my mail once to know the shipping cost to Malaysia or perhaps i haven't buy plans from them yet that's why



Christian am very happy with the questions you ask me about getting materials from a company like aircraft spruce,  this is why am here  for you friends to help me out  by mentioning the core  materials i will need  and i can search it  locally,  though aircraft spruce have a representative here but i think they are more into composite.



So please what are the core materials I will need to build from Plans.



Thanks you  all once again for the warm welcome and contribution.

Christian Tremblay

Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: A Newbie from Malaysia

I Steve,



Like said Craig, Zenith don't realy support CH640 builders, may be, because

in the 4 places market, we don't represent the mass of the builder's kit for

Zenith. The 2 places and the LSA is a more lucrative market. Survive is the

key in aircraft industries... But, from here in Canada, I ordered some

pieces to Zenith, like Extented tank range, and I received all the parts in

good condition and in short delay.



I think the first step for you is ordered the plan. You will see. And with

the plan, and some local expertise, you can build the aircraft alone.

Secondo, If I will be at you place, I will try to evaluate support from any

aircraft suppliers like Spruce Aircraft. I think the real problem is there,

could you have all material that you will need ? 



To help you, I sent to you an excell file, that I  build, in attachment of

these email, of all pieces needed to build rudder, tail wing and wings are

inventoried. Some of these pieces refers to aircraft ANS part number other

refer to Zenith CH640 plans. Took a look, and try to find these materials

from your local suppliers.



See you



Christian T. 

 



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Zodiac_CH640_Inventaire_pieces.xls

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_________________
Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc
A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059
www.zodiac640.com

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Christian thank you for the  attachment i do appreciate it alot, I will try to see if i can get those materials locally or ask Aircraft spruce,  but am sure if those materials are available at aircraft spruce it will be no problem for me. 



But I will like to ask did you order your materials from?



Thanks once again for the file you sent  to me

Scott Stewart

Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Windsor, California

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hi Steve,



Welcome to the list.  Besides Christian, I am the only other person building the CH-640 from plans on this list.  I have developed a complete list of parts which need to be fabricated and a layout plan for cutting the pieces from raw sheet aluminum.  I would be happy to share any of this with you once you decide to jump into the project.  I am over 80% done with the full airframe, so I am further along than Christian at this point.  (Thanks, Christian, for getting me a really good head start a few years ago with your very detailed web site and personal correspondence.)



I have found several errors with the set of plans I received in January 2008.  I posted a list of these on the Matronics wiki site -- http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Complete_CH_640_Errata.  All of these errors have been confirmed by Zenair, and they have told me they have updated their master files.  When you order your plans, you should confirm if the dimensions have been fixed.



It's unfortunate that many people have found Zenair to be unresponsive.  That has not been my experience.  Sometimes I have had to send a follow-up email after not hearing from them for two days, but they always respond promptly after that.  For urgent issues, I have been able to call Mathieu Heintz directly and talk through any problem.  Michael Heintz is a member of my EAA chapter, so I can also escalate issues through him.



Three years ago, like you, I was a complete newbie.  I wasn't sure if I could build a complete airplane from plans.  So I purchased a half sheet of aluminum and made two sets of wing ribs and two sets of stabilator ribs to practice.  This taught me a lot about the tools and techniques I would need without a big investment.  I recommend that you do something similar to this if you are new to sheet metal fabrication.



Good luck with your build.  The attached picture shows the status of my fuselage last year.  Please let me know if you have any questions, and I'll be happy to answer.

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_________________
Scott Stewart
CH-640 built from plans
Flying since August 2014

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hi Scott,



Nice and very happy to read from you, this is a wonderful job and nice job am hoping i could do something like this in few years after i started my project. Not am only a newbie to metal but I never build anything before but I am too sure I can get it  done with you guys in shearing ideas with me.



I am going to order my plans from Zenith soon, as am now seeing a good response from you guys. I must say you are all my inspirations towards this project as here in Malaysia no one ever build from ever build any plane from plans before, so its going to be wonderful mentioning the names of people who give me the support and inspiration on completing the project.



I must say thank you Guys for the Inspiration. But Scott what are the tools and going to need as I always wonder which tools are used in forming and shaping some parts like the ribs and the likes. Could you please tell me so I can start from there in setting up my  workshop.

Thank you.

Scott Stewart

Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Windsor, California

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hi Steve,



Make sure you read through the "getting started" packet at http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/tools.htm.  This shows the basic hand tools and work benches you will need.  Also, since you are building from plans, you will need access to a bending brake and shear.  I have access to a 1 meter wide shear and brake at my work place, and I have been able to use these to fabricate most of the metal pieces.  All of the curved pieces, like wing ribs and bulkheads, are formed by hammering the metal around wood forms.  The plans contain detailed dimensions for the forms.



For larger pieces, like the wing leading edge skin, you will need to fabricate your own tooling jigs.  There are many ways to make these, and the internet is full of suggestions.  Again, I would be happy to show you what I did when you get to that point.



Many of the parts are fabricated from steel which need to be welded.  If you don't have welding experience, you will need to have someone weld them locally or purchase these parts from Zenair.  You will also need to decide whether to have the aluminum fuel tanks welded locally or purchase them fully complete from Zenair.



The main things you will need to get this project done are patience and determination.  You will encounter many highs and lows along your journey.  Highs when pieces come together into a beautiful assembly; lows when parts don't fit and need to be remade.  This is all normal, and thousands of builders go through this same process as they build their dream.



Good luck.  Let us know when you start.

_________________
Scott Stewart
CH-640 built from plans
Flying since August 2014

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

h

Hey Scott,

  I went to your errate page and it said there was no text. Did i do something wrong?

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Thank you Scott, I really appreciate it.

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Here is a link to Zenith construction FAQ: http://www.zenithair.com/images/kit-data/college.html

http://www.zenithair.com/images/kit-data/faq-gen.htm



here is a link to a website with a lot of how tos and scratch build tips.

http://www.ch601.org/

new link to errata. http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Complete_CH_640_Errata



Get yourself a login for the Zenith builder pages (not the one on the 640 zenair site)

That way you can download the latest construction standards manual in PDF.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

A big thanks to you Pilot4play for those links.

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:09 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hello Guys,



Please which one is better about shear, i can found hydraulic which is expensive, and there is manual shear machine. So which one should i go for. But I found a shear plan on 601.org but dont really understand the plan. Any advice?

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Scott and gang,

  I reviewed the errata again and found something of note. I bought those new CAD plans when they came out about a year ago and found something interesting. Here is the errata in question:



    "Drawing 640V1, Revision 4 - Item 1, Wing Spar Extension. The plans dimension "~405" to the first lightening hole. Change this to 350 mm. 640V2 wing spar extension assembly shows the lightening hole half-way between the two (L) pieces. Adding the dimensions: 25 mm for spar cap overlap + 225 mm from overlap bend to first (L) + 100 mm from first (L) to center of lightening hole = 350 mm."



My old plans had the distance at 405 like you said Scott, but the new CAD plans have it as approx 305mm. Not the 350mm The errata page said it is supposed to be. Zenair obviously fixed the mistake (but left the revision number the same) but now we need to figure out if the 305mm or the 350mm is correct. Both pictures of 640-V-2 show the lightening hole slightly closer to the inboard "L" angle than the outer one.  There is nothing out there really so I doubt 45mm difference will matter at all though. Scott, I didn't want to update the errata page until we got a resolution on which number is correct.

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:14 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

 	  stevetosh wrote: 	
		  Hello Guys,



Please which one is better about shear, i can found hydraulic which is expensive, and there is manual shear machine. So which one should i go for. But I found a shear plan on 601.org but dont really understand the plan. Any advice? 	




Unless you plan on making a commercial venture out of your kit building, a manual shear should be just fine. Many get by without a shear at all, but as a scratch builder, it probably would save you time. On thin stock, scoring with an Olfa knife works very well.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

Scott Stewart

Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Windsor, California

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Hi Mark,



I went out to the hangar where my wings are stored to measure and photograph the lightening hole.  I used a crude measuring tape in the photograph just to demonstrate the distances.  (And please forgive the dirt collected in the wing while in storage.)



You can see the rivet line versus the position of the lightening hole.  I suggest the 350mm dimension, but you can change this +/- 30 mm without affecting anything.  Moving it 45 mm is too much.  Notice how the hole would overlap the vertical "L" positioned at 250 mm from the edge of the wing spar extension.

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_________________
Scott Stewart
CH-640 built from plans
Flying since August 2014

stevetosh

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:36 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Pilot4play thanks alot  for that answer on  the shear machine, i do  not intend to be a kit builder.  LOL



Here is my progress so far, I have gotten a source for Aluminum sheet here, but am wondering if its same quality with those in US & Canada. Also I contact homebuildhelp to purchase a DVD on scratch building but still waiting to purchase till i  get  material and tools to practice.



Now what about the Bend machine any substitution for this? As i wouldn't like to keep those machine after building as they are no more usefully.

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: Re: A Newbie from Malaysia

Scott,

  Looks like you are right. Zenair must have updated the plans and switched the numbers around. The pieces come pre-fabricated for me, but I imagine it would tick me off if I scratch built the spar extension only to find out later that the hole was in the wrong place!

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

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