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clrprop
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC
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 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: Downwind landing tips? |
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I'm in the process of making my own strip. I'll have one way out and one way in. Prevailing winds are downwind for landing.
Any helpful hints on the best way to execute a downwind landing in a Mark III, 582 on a short runway?
I plan to practice a bunch before I try it at home...
1st plane, +/- 100 hrs.
Thanks
KT
Mark III
NC
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:17 pm Post subject: Downwind landing tips? |
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KT
I flew my MKIIIC out of a one way strip for 11 years. Many up and down wind landings. The strip is 1400 ft down hill going out and up hill going in with tall trees on three sides.
Practice with no wind and work up to it. I actually preferred down wind over up wind landings. When landing down wind my air speed would increase near the ground where I would be sheltered from the wind. When landing up wind airspeed would decrease just as I was flaring for landing. When landing up wind I would add a bit of speed and power. Down wind decrease speed and power. Make sure you have plenty of length. With the hill my 1400 ft was plenty most of the time. I always used one notch of flaps to reduce the float in ground effect. If you have a strip like mine you have to keep your head in it for every landing because there was no aborted landings by going around after I reached about 200' from the approach end of the strip. I had tall trees on both sides of the runway after the first few hundred feet. Down wind takeoffs were never a problem.
I can remember one down wind approach where I was landing way too high and fast to get stopped. I did a 90 degree turn right before the end of the runway while trying to climb above the trees. I experienced the closer view of a tree line than I will ever want to see again. Paid better attention after that. I also thanked Homer big time for designing such a forgiving airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:58 PM, clrprop <ktony(at)windstream.net (ktony(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "clrprop" <ktony(at)windstream.net (ktony(at)windstream.net)>
I'm in the process of making my own strip. I'll have one way out and one way in. Prevailing winds are downwind for landing.
Any helpful hints on the best way to execute a downwind landing in a Mark III, 582 on a short runway?
I plan to practice a bunch before I try it at home...
1st plane, +/- 100 hrs.
Thanks
KT
Mark III
NC
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Downwind landing tips? |
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KT,
You did not mention whether your strip is level, nor did you mention how long it will be nor what engine is in your mkiii. Nor did you say if the strip is sheltered from cross winds by trees etc. or what typical wind speeds are in your area. All these are factors in take-off and most are factors during landing.
If you have a wide enough area, you should consider keeping half of it in long grass (for landing) and the other half mowed short for take-off.
The two most important things in short field landing is airspeed control and intimate knowledge of YOUR airplane. This applies whether you are landing upwind, downwind or crosswind. Groundspeed should be ignored while in the air. It is a factor only while on the ground.
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Downwind landing tips? |
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What Thom said - How short is short? And is it flat or sloped? My grass strip - 3TN0 - where MKIII N420P is based is 750' long, and is aligned 5/23. You always take off on 23 and land on 5 because it is one way in, one way out. Prevailing wind is from the SW, so the down hill take off is normally into a head wind - but not always. And you typically land uphill with a tail wind.
Attached are some pictures of the strip and the approach. Just to make things more interesting, TVA has giant power lines and towers on the approach to the strip. I marked them with little red dots in the pictures. So you have to cross the tower and then let the air out in a hurry. The first picture is on half mile final, the second picture is crossing the tower.
To optimize for consistency, I make all my landings with full flaps, everywhere, every time. I do this so that the airplane always acts exactly the same, I never have to think about slightly different aircraft behavior. Someone with a higher skill level than I have might not need this, but I am trying to stack the deck in my favor as much as I can.
The grass next to the strip is usually several inches high, at times during the summer it can get a foot high. If you land long and hot, get the airplane down and stabilized and then go for the tall grass. Several years ago I had a fuel filter get partially plugged while departing from a friends short strip and the engine began to surge. I did a 180 and went straight back in. Landed long and hot and once the airplane was planted and stable, ran it off the runway into 2' high grass. It stopped in about ten feet. Fortunately I was solo, if I had a passenger it might have tipped up. So like Thom said, tall grass off to one side of the runway is a good thing.
You want vortex generators for the wings and the underside of the horizontal stab, and gap seal the horizontal stab to the elevators. Once I did this on mine, I could consistently make an approach about ten mph slower. The mods to the tail will give you more control authority in the flair when you have a heavy passenger. A MKIII flies good without these mods, but if you are going to be habitually flying out of a less than ideal strip like I do, VG's are just another way to stack the deck in your favor.
As far as down wind landings - unless the wind is blowing really hard, you won't notice it much once you get used to it, the MKIII is pretty easy to work with in that situation. I am spoiled, I have good brakes and I don't have to wiggle my feet around on the rudder pedals to use them, which makes keeping the airplane straight and stopping at the same time easier.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Downwind landing tips? |
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At 08:04 AM 4/9/11 -0700, you wrote:
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Richard's email reminded me of my first experience with a Kolb design.
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Before purchasing a FireFly kit, I wanted to see a Kolb design in the flesh.
I had contacted the old Kolb Company and asked it there was someone in
southeast Missouri that had a Kolb. I was given a name and telephone number
for a fellow who worked in a Dexter, Missouri machine shop. We made
arrangements to meet after his work day and trailed him further west and
north to an out in the country hayfield and landing strip. At the entrance
of the field there was a truck trailer set up on cement blocks and it was a
little machine shop he had set up and in which he had built his FireStar.
He said he was going to build a house on the property.
His landing strip was north and south along the west line fence, and it was
filled with mature trees. We walked out to a trailer on which the FireStar
was folded and covered by a tarp. We removed the tarp and unfolded the
wings while it sat on the trailer. He had not covered the cockpit end of
the wings and so they rumbled and rattled as the acorns and hickory nuts
rolled around in the leading edge compartments.
His trailer was interesting in that it squat so that the lower frame rested
on the ground. He used some VW Rabbit rear wheel spindles on swing arms
outside the frame with a locking lever arrangement to lift the frame up into
the transport position. This made it easy to roll the plane off the trailer
bed.
He started and warmed it up and proceed to taxi to the north end of the
strip. I stood there wondering how he was going to handle the cross wind
from the west coming over and through the trees in the line fence. He
handled it very well on take off and few several low passes and then he set
up for a landing. He kept the speed up and came down through the rotor off
the trees, fighting and crabbing to keep position and the wings somewhat
level. Then I realized he was much to hot and I backed closer to the tree
line. He touched down about 50 feet from me, shut the engine off and kicked
a hard left rudder into the un mowed hay field. Then he held full right
rudder, and the plane stopped 50 feet on the other side me with the nose
sticking out of the hay.
We pulled it a little ways to the trailer, de-hayed the horizontal tail and
cables, and the landing gear, and rolled it on the trailer bed, folded the
wings, and covered it back up with the tarp. It was ready for the squirrel
to resume his work of adding nuts to the wing interior.
I went home and mailed off my check for the FireFly. Years later, I passed
by and stopped to see him but he was not home. He had completed his house.
Later on, I flew down and over to a Poplar Bluff, MO fly in, and on the
return flight I flew over his home site as a way of saying thank you for
helping me to make up my mind about a Kolb FireFly.
The tubing need to splice the broken FireFly wing braces has come, and
tomorrow is supposed to be warm. Hope to get started on the repairs.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
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flypoker(at)windstream.ne
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: Downwind landing tips? |
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Jack
Who was it that had a kolb at Dexter?
Jerry Deckard
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Downwind landing tips? |
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Thanks, Jack for that great story. Says a lot about Kolbs and at least some of their pilots.
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: Downwind landing tips? |
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At 04:00 PM 4/9/11 -0500, you wrote:
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Jack
Who was it that had a kolb at Dexter?
Jerry Deckard
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Jerry,
I have gone through my junk and I cannot find the brown envelope from Kolb
on which I wrote his name. I got on maps.google.com and looked for the
place but I could not find it. As I remember it, he lived north of Dudley,
but he worked in Dexter at a machine shop.
That's the best I can do.
Jack
do not archive
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Dennis Thate
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Downwind landing tips? |
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CLR Prop
I just put in a new 800 strip this last fall for my Firestar II. I would be just as, if not more concerned about gusts and eddies from your close proximity to the row of trees during quartering crosswind landings and takeoff's.
Main thing... maintain your airspeed !
Fly Safe
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Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern |
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