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Okanogan Lew
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 45
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to Porterville with the dates & reason. They said I was good to go, & then I received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous Program Letters & would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back & said the 2009 letter was invalid & they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to send a letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year & no flights are planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile limit, or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks.
Paul Lewis
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Answer - Yes, you ARE required to submit an Program letter each year.
As ridiculous as this is since there is no longer a proficiency area,
AIR 200 in DC when they issued the letter removing the 300/600 mile
proficiency area in Sept. 2007, didn't bother to think about Program
letters. Anyway, the aircraft's Operating Limitations dictate what you
must do.
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 5:57 PM, Okanogan Lew wrote:
| Quote: |
Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& then I received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous Program Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the 2009 letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to send a letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no flights are planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile limit, or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks.
Paul Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872
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kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
Kregg
Victory Aero LLC
2502 John Montgomery Dr.
San Jose, CA 95148
408-836-5122
www.balancemyprop.com
--
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Pete Fowler
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Program Letter |
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My understanding (and what the FSDO told me) is that you have to file a program letter every year. Mine basically says I'm going to fly my plane whenever I want to do training and airshows and FAST proficiency stuff and take it to places for maintenance and above. If you have the 300 mile limit (easy to remove in my experience helping a friend who had it) then those flights have to be on the letter.
I add airshow appearances that I'm planning on doing but it's one of those bits of paper the FSDO needs in your folder every year. Mine courteously sends me a reminder every year and I just update the dates and airshows and send it back to them.
It's paperwork, they always want the paperwork regardless of what you're doing from what I understand.
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
aircraft and be available to the pilot.
(Applicability: All)
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
[quote]
No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
Kregg
Victory Aero LLC
2502 John Montgomery Dr.
San Jose, CA 95148
408-836-5122
www.balancemyprop.com
--
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
FAX to the FSDO.
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
[quote]
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
aircraft and be available to the pilot.
(Applicability: All)
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>
> Kregg
>
> Victory Aero LLC
> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
> San Jose, CA 95148
> 408-836-5122
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
> --
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kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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I guess fisdo's can be a little different
Sent from my Samsung Epicâ„¢ 4G
"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
[quote]
Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
FAX to the FSDO.
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
> (Applicability: All)
>
> Dennis
> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>>
>>
>> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
>> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>>
>> Kregg
>>
>> Victory Aero LLC
>> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>> San Jose, CA 95148
>> 408-836-5122
>> www.balancemyprop.com
>>
>> --
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's.
The OL's always take precedent.
Dennis
On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
[quote]
I guess fisdo's can be a little different
Sent from my Samsung Epicâ„¢ 4G
"A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
> FAX to the FSDO.
> Dennis
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>
>> <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
>> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
>> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
>> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
>> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
>> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
>> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
>> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
>> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
>> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
>> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
>> (Applicability: All)
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
>>> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>>>
>>> Kregg
>>>
>>> Victory Aero LLC
>>> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>>> San Jose, CA 95148
>>> 408-836-5122
>>> www.balancemyprop.com
>>>
>>> --
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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I sent out an amendment to my Program Letter today and the Safety Inspector asked me to re-submit it because it did not have dates for the events listed.
I also made the mistake of listing an air show that had been called off for this year. This was mentioned, although I don't understand why it needed to be.
Of interest is that no Program Letter submitted over the last 10 years had dates on them.
I decided to simply say in the (revised) letter that I could not make any firm commitments for Air Show events for this calendar year due to job obligations, which is the truth. I also mentioned I would advise them in advance if my schedule decided to allow me to attend any future event.
I then gave them a list of all scheduled Air Shows for 2011 for reference.
Hopefully that will meet their requirements.
The list of events that you intend to go to is not mandatory and you do not have to tell the FAA if you fail to attend. Further, you are not required to ask their permission to attend anything that is not on your original Program Letter.
What you DO have to do is to NOTIFY them in ADVANCE if you actually GO to an event.
Mark Bitterlich
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okanoganlew(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not say that you must report non activity. Paul On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. The OL's always take precedent. > > > Dennis > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg(at)balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > Dennis > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > 408-836-5122 > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > --
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: Program Letter |
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So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the
year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked
by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or
carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll
carry one that says "no events scheduled".
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make
their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of
a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned
activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low
profile when it comes to the FAA.
Dennis
On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote:
[quote] Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not
say that you must report non activity.
Paul
On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's.
The OL's always take precedent.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess fisdo's can be a little different
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G
>
>
>
>
>
> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
>
>
> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
>
>
> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
>
>
> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
>
>
> FAX to the FSDO.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
>
>
> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
>
>
> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
>
>
> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
>
>
> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
>
>
> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
>
>
> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
>
>
> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
>
>
> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
>
>
> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
>
>
> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
>
>
> (Applicability: All)
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
>
>
> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg
>
>
>
>
>
> Victory Aero LLC
>
>
> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>
>
> San Jose, CA 95148
>
>
> 408-836-5122
>
>
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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okanoganlew(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: Program Letter |
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|
That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check? On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > > > > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > > > say that you must report non activity. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > > > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg(at)balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > > > Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
They will not accept a program letter with nothing on it.
They will also not accept a program letter with EVERYTHING on it.
They will not accept NO program letter since your Operating Limitations
says you must turn one in.
In my mind, this is a kind of game.... and I have been through a lot of
games like this, since I work for the Govt. too.
Here is the bottom line:
The FAA has guidelines and requirements that they must follow.
Some of these impact us as Experimental Exhibition owners.
Logic and reason have nothing to do with this... so don't go there.
Figure out.. .and if necessary ASK THEM just what it is they require and
just do it. You lose NOTHING by going along with the game.
It is tempting to get into a verbal fight with these people. Believe
me... BELIEVE ME... I know that myself.
Here's the plus: I met one gentlemen locally at my FISDO that I
respect, and who I believe is being totally honest with me. If you can
find a person like I have, you are really in luck. I can TALK to this
guy. And I honestly believe he has my best interests in mind. So I
asked him. He told me. I did what he told me to do. All seems to be
well.
I suggest this course of action to all. "Low Profile" is exactly right.
Mark Bitterlich
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:10 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Program Letter
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the
year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked
by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or
carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll
carry one that says "no events scheduled".
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make
their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of
a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned
activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low
profile when it comes to the FAA.
Dennis
On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does
not
|
| Quote: | say that you must report non activity.
Paul
On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's
OL's.
|
| Quote: | >
>
>
>
>
> I guess fisdo's can be a little different
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G
>
>
>
>
>
> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
>
>
> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This
fulfills
|
| Quote: | >
>
> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to
attend
|
| Quote: | >
>
> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter
by
|
| Quote: | >
>
> FAX to the FSDO.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm
pretty
|
| Quote: | >
>
> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must
be
|
| Quote: | >
>
> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x).
Page
|
| Quote: | >
>
> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
>
>
> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows,
fly-ins,
|
| Quote: | >
>
> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
>
>
> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This
list of
|
| Quote: | >
>
> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO
prior
|
| Quote: | >
>
> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
>
>
> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
>
>
> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
>
>
> (Applicability: All)
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com>
|
| Quote: | >
>
>
>
>
> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't
fly the
|
[quote] >
>
> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg
>
>
>
>
>
> Victory Aero LLC
>
>
> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>
>
> San Jose, CA 95148
>
>
> 408-836-5122
>
>
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
So you wouldn't get ramp checked at your own airport? I've personally gotten ramp checked at the damndest places. I once had a former fellow PAA pilot and good friend ramp check me! It may "not make any sense" EXCEPT to the FAA.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/15/2011 2:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com writes:
[quote]That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check?
On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled".
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA.
Dennis
On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote:
Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not
say that you must report non activity.
Paul
On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese"
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's.
The OL's always take precedent.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg(at)balancemyprop.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess fisdo's can be a little different
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Epicâ„¢ 4G
>
>
>
>
>
> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis
Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
>
>
> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
>
>
> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
>
>
> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
>
>
> FAX to the FSDO.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
>
>
> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
>
>
> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
>
>
> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
>
>
> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
>
>
> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
>
>
> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
>
>
> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
>
>
> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
>
>
> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
>
>
> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
>
>
> (Applicability: All)
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
>
>
> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg
>
>
>
>
>
> Victory Aero LLC
>
>
> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>
>
> San Jose, CA 95148
>
>
> 408-836-5122
>
>
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
If you are flying an airplane, you always have to be concerned with a
ramp check.
If you believe that FAA ramp checks are totally random, you are
mistaken.
Assuming that what the FAA does always makes sense is an example of an
Oxymoron.
--
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
The game depends on the vintage of your program letter. In the 300NM
"Proficiency" days you did not need a program letter unless you were going
outside the 300 NM. I got "RAMPED" 280 NM from home one day and showed the
OPs limits and that was that. No Problem. (also no letter that year)
Also you guys should understand that every FSDO and even inspectors
within a FSDO have different interpretations of what is required. Best to
know your FSDO guy and discuss with him/her what you should do and have him
ready to back you up if needed when some other FSDO guy says differently.
Un officially I will tell you that my FSDO guys pretty much just discarded
my letters after they received them. As you are not REQUIRED to carry a copy
of the letter with you when traveling, then it leaves a lot of room for
"interpretation"
--
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
You could be flying locally off your home airport for proficiency (which doesn't have to be on your program letter), and be ramped there.
On Apr 15, 2011, at 2:30 PM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com (okanoganlew(at)gmail.com) wrote:
[quote]That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check?
On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled".
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA.
Dennis
On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com (okanoganlew(at)gmail.com) wrote:
Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not
say that you must report non activity.
Paul
On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese"
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
>
>
>
>
>
> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's.
The OL's always take precedent.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg(at)balancemyprop.com (Victorykregg(at)balancemyprop.com)>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess fisdo's can be a little different
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G
>
>
>
>
>
> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis
Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
>
>
>
>
>
> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be
>
>
> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills
>
>
> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend
>
>
> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by
>
>
> FAX to the FSDO.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty
>
>
> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be
>
>
> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page
>
>
> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual
>
>
> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins,
>
>
> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at
>
>
> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of
>
>
> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior
>
>
> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted
>
>
> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this
>
>
> aircraft and be available to the pilot.
>
>
> (Applicability: All)
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com (kregg(at)balancemyprop.com)>
>
>
>
>
>
> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the
>
>
> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway
>
>
>
>
>
> Kregg
>
>
>
>
>
> Victory Aero LLC
>
>
> 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
>
>
> San Jose, CA 95148
>
>
> 408-836-5122
>
>
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: Program Letter |
|
|
When I first got my CJ, one of the local CJ gurus told me to anticipate getting ramp checked at every event attended. Told me to have a plastic folder in the aft cockpit that contained:
Copy of license and current medical.
Copy from logbook: Last BFR, last annual, warbird FFA inspection logbook entry.
Phase 2 operating limitations.
Current insurance info.
Picture of expiratory date tag(s) of parachute(s).
Program letter for current year.
Registration & special airworthiness certificate.
Copy of FAST card, if you have one.
Warren
On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:02 PM, George Coy wrote:
[quote]
The game depends on the vintage of your program letter. In the 300NM
"Proficiency" days you did not need a program letter unless you were going
outside the 300 NM. I got "RAMPED" 280 NM from home one day and showed the
OPs limits and that was that. No Problem. (also no letter that year)
Also you guys should understand that every FSDO and even inspectors
within a FSDO have different interpretations of what is required. Best to
know your FSDO guy and discuss with him/her what you should do and have him
ready to back you up if needed when some other FSDO guy says differently.
Un officially I will tell you that my FSDO guys pretty much just discarded
my letters after they received them. As you are not REQUIRED to carry a copy
of the letter with you when traveling, then it leaves a lot of room for
"interpretation"
--
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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I've seen FAA inspectors on the ramp of an airport where there wasn't an
event and ask someone for their paperwork.
Dennis
On 4/15/2011 1:30 PM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote:
[quote] That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events,
then why would you be concerned with a ranp check?
On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
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> So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for
the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get
asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please",
or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll
carry one that says "no events scheduled".
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> I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can
make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a
copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned
activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low
profile when it comes to the FAA.
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> Dennis
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> On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew(at)gmail.com wrote:
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> Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not
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> Paul
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> On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese"
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> > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
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> > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm
pretty
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Victory"kregg(at)balancemyprop.com>
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> > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't
fly the
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> > Victory Aero LLC
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> > 2502 John Montgomery Dr.
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> > San Jose, CA 95148
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> > --
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Program Letter |
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Concur ... FDSOs are looking more closely at Experimental Exhibition types than they used to ... I now expect an inspection every three years ...
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