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Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

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douglas.lindsay

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Scotland, UK

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Hi all,



I'm considering buying a 601 HDS at the moment. Although there's nothing desperately wrong with the plane's performance at the moment, I wanted to gauge what sort of options there are out there for improving things.



So: what sort of ideas have you implemented for aerodynamic cleanup that haven't turned up in the forums already? I know some folk have applied wing fairings, others vortex generators, and there have been suggestions of converting to taildragger (bit too much work for me I think!) or even simply filling in rivet heads; but what else is out there, and what cruise speeds / stall speeds / climb rates have you ended up with as a result?



Thanks all!

Douglas

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Hi Douglas,

The HDS does depend a bit on the engine and prop available.  I have a Subaru

EA81 with a 2.1 to 1 re-drive and a Warp Drive 70 inch prop set at 17-1/2

degrees pitch.  My takeoff  rate of climb is about 1200 fpm with the plane

at 1125 lbs. Cruise is 115 to 120 and top end is 133 mph. 

If you have an 0-200 or a 120 H.P. Jabaru, you can go another 5 mph or more.

Fairings on the HDS should include gear box covers at the top of the gear,

step extension fairings an 11 inch prop fairing, flush fuel tank covers, and

bottom antennae.  The reason for not going faster with the HDS is its thick

wing, which is great for short take off and landings and flaring slow, but

it is a bit more friction dimensionally.

Check out my site and you'll see the fairings on my completions page.



Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



--

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Hey Doug -



I really like my 601HDS. My plane climbs a lot faster than the spam cans and has decent cruise performance. The one area that I wish I could change though was to give it a little faster cruise speed (although, I think even those flying at 300MPH still want more speed, so I'm not sure when enough is enough sort of thing!).



In order to try and get the maximum out of the design, I've installed pretty much EVERYTHING -- vortex generators, wing-root fairings, and basic aerodynamic clean ups. The one area I haven't done is to clean up the top side of the gear legs which I suspect would add a few knots. Really wish I had done those but haven't found the motivation to make them at this point -- if someone had them for sale though, I'd probably buy and install to try.



The biggest improvement I saw was with the Vortex Generators and at least in my particular build seemed to help climb and improve cruise speeds by helping to keep the nose down. If nothing else, it added a safety margin as it decreased the stall speeds as well. 



I'm flying behind a Jabiru 3300A. My cruise speed is at the 125 to 135MPH no wind if I fly at a high RPM and willing to burn a lot of fuel. If I go all out, I can get almost 140MPH Ground Speed (No Wind) in the right conditions/altitude, etc.



The 601HDS (as I think all small planes) are really affected by weight. Anything you can do to reduce the weight will make the plane fly better. When I did my first flight, I weighed 250 pounds, I now weigh under 200 and the plane does fly noticeable better as a result.



Good luck!

Don

--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:29 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Klaus Truemper did a lot of work on this on his Zenith 601HDS:



http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/airplane.html (slow, lots of

pictures)



http://picasaweb.google.com/ttp444/Klaus601HDS#



-- Craig

rhodes1

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Us

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Hi

    What is the stall speed after installing the vortex generators

Thanks Don---

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Ella -



Depending on loading/weight -- 40 to 50 MPH is the typical stall speeds I see now.



I had started out about 5 to 10 MPH faster before installing them. The AOA required for stalling is also much higher during power on stalls like you may have seen in some of the online videos from the company that sells the stick on plastic ones from overseas.



For me though, the stall speed really didn't matter much -- I was fine flying and landing a bit faster although the safety margin is always nice. What really got me was that the plane just flew better which is hard to quantify, but after noticing/feeling the change, I personally wouldn't want to fly a 601HDS for any real time without them.  Another builder that I fly with a lot also noticed that the plane flew much better after installing.



Hope this helps --



Thanks,

Don

--

rhodes1

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Us

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Thanks for info

Don Rhodes

---

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Ella,

     I may have missed it but is there anything on the vortex 

generators, source, installation locations, pictures? I believe these 

things are very specific to the wing design so a design used for another 

aircraft can't be carried over.



On 04/21/2011 3:12 PM, Don Honabach wrote:

[quote] 



 Ella -



 Depending on loading/weight -- 40 to 50 MPH is the typical stall speeds I see now.



 I had started out about 5 to 10 MPH faster before installing them. The AOA required for stalling is also much higher during power on stalls like you may have seen in some of the online videos from the company that sells the stick on plastic ones from overseas.



 For me though, the stall speed really didn't matter much -- I was fine flying and landing a bit faster although the safety margin is always nice. What really got me was that the plane just flew better which is hard to quantify, but after noticing/feeling the change, I personally wouldn't want to fly a 601HDS for any real time without them.  Another builder that I fly with a lot also noticed that the plane flew much better after installing.



 Hope this helps --



 Thanks,

 Don

 --

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

This is the company I purchased the vortex generators from http://www.stolspeed.com/id/60 ... they have instructions for placement there along with videos, etc. 



Please keep in mind I'm flying a 601HDS and everyone's plane is different... even if 'the same' or as they say, your results may vary, but I LOVE THEM and wouldn't fly without them!



Don



--

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Klaus also has some interesting ideas:



http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/airplane.html



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans



  [quote] 

 >>

 >> -->  Zenith601-List message posted by: "douglas.lindsay"

 >> -->  <douglas.gj.lindsay(at)gmail.com (douglas.gj.lindsay(at)gmail.com)>

 >>

 >> Hi all,

 >>

 >> I'm considering buying a 601 HDS at the moment. Although there's

 >> nothing desperately wrong with the plane's performance at the moment,

 >> I wanted to gauge what sort of options there are out there for improving things.

 >>

 >> So: what sort of ideas have you implemented for aerodynamic cleanup

 >> that haven't turned up in the forums already? I know some folk have

 >> applied wing fairings, others vortex generators, and there have been

 >> suggestions of converting to taildragger (bit too much work for me I

 >> think!) or even simply filling in rivet heads; but what else is out

 >> there, and what cruise speeds / stall speeds / climb rates have you ended up with as a result?

 >>

 >> Thanks all!

 >> Douglas

 >>

[b]

douglas.lindsay

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Scotland, UK

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Aerodynamic clean-up ideas

Thanks everyone!



We've now bought the aircraft so going to fly it for a season and then implement as many of these ideas as we can over the winter.



Happy flying!

Doug

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