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Honda?

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scouttwo(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: Honda?

- I was just looking at the last line of your post on the forum

You have a Honda CBR1000 engine powering your baby?-



craig -



Sure, why not?



The parts will be done in a few months.



Major firewall surgery is required to make kr-2 like front end with tall 

spring gear.



It will ride a little low on the new firewall, but i like the profile 

modelled on the computer - p40 ish



Big oil cooler, piston oil jetting, fully functioning modular factory 

gearbox rocks.



Big woodie race prop - shift down/winde out, 2000 fpm climb?

100bhp (at) 6k, 120 (at) 7k, 140 (at) 8k, 150 (at) 9k, 160 (at) 10k.



Burn it up, wear it out and re-install in cycle frame!



Nic -



Sorry about the politics ya'll

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Honda?

Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

wiring loom.



If you have any photos I would love to see them



Regards



craig



--

don-glasstile(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: Honda?

Has anyone given consideration to Eggenfellner's Viking-Honda engine. He has a lengthy track record converting Suberus to aircraft use. He is already shipping engines and says they will be offered in Aircraft Spruce catalog. The weight sounds good and aftermarket turbos for the Honda are <3K.



http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/products/Products.html



Don Pettey

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:10 AM, craig wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 wiring loom.

 

 If you have any photos I would love to see them

 

 Regards

 

 craig

 

 --

gcrowder2

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: Honda?

Go for it Craig!  Don't let any of the doomsayers on this list talk you out of it.  This will be awesome.  The modern 

 motorcycle engines are bulletproof.  I run the Sube EA81 engine in my bird and have been totally happy with it and

 has been totally reliable at least after I got the cooling system to work!  Your'e going to have 10 times the fun with

 your project than all the other plug and play types.  Please post your progress often!

  

                                                           Glenn

   

 

 > From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

[quote] To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Honda?

 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:10:40 +1000

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 

 Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 wiring loom.

 

 If you have any photos I would love to see them

 

 Regards

 

 craig

 

 --

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: Honda?

Glenn

which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

Graham

From: glenn crowder <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 18:37:40

Subject: RE:  Honda?

     Go for it Craig!  Don't let any of the doomsayers on this list talk you out of it.  This will be awesome.  The modern 

 motorcycle engines are bulletproof.  I run the Sube EA81 engine in my bird and have been totally happy with it and

 has been totally reliable at least after I got the cooling system to work!  Your'e going to have 10 times the fun with

 your project than all the other plug and play types.  Please post your progress often!

                                                           Glenn

 > From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

[quote] To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Honda?

 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:10:40 +1000

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 wiring loom.

 If you have any photos I would love to see them

 Regards

 craig

 --

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: Honda?

I think glenn may be using the gearbox, I will be using a belt redrive on the hayabusa engine. Depending on prop size  

The reduction needs to be about 1.8 to 1 to give me the correct speed of engine to prop for max torque.  

   

Yes as far as the engine goes, I like several points over the rotax or jab. One is the intake system  

4x 52mm intakes as opposed to 2x 32mm for the carbs. Two fuel injectors per cylinder. Titanuim valve train with 4 valves per cylinder. Ceramic coated cylinders. 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the oil. I intend to limit the 190hp down to about 100 for the initial testing phase so it wont be too much engine. Iâ€™ll adjust it then up to about 125hp,  

The same as the jab 6. The dressed weight ready to run is looking like about 140lbs at this stage.  

   

Regards  

   

craig   

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

 Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 6:33 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Honda?  

  

  

       

Glenn

 which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

 Graham  

    

         

  

From: glenn crowder <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 18:37:40

 Subject: RE: Honda?

 

 Go for it Craig!  Don't let any of the doomsayers on this list talk you out of it.  This will be awesome.  The modern 

 motorcycle engines are bulletproof.  I run the Sube EA81 engine in my bird and have been totally happy with it and

 has been totally reliable at least after I got the cooling system to work!  Your'e going to have 10 times the fun with

 your project than all the other plug and play types.  Please post your progress often!

  

                                                           Glenn

   

  

 > From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: RE: Honda?

 > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:10:40 +1000

 > 

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 > 

 > Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 > waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 > gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 > to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 > the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 > alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 > wiring loom.

 > 

 > If you have any photos I would love to see them

 > 

 > Regards

 > 

 > craig

 > 

 > --

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: Honda?

Graham,



In my case, my RAM Sube comes w/ an Autoflight, NZ helical gear PSRU...I opted for a 1.9 ratio since my engine has separate air intakes for each cyl. and puts out 140 hp; see:

	http://www.ramengines.com/id5.html

for hp/torque "curves", see:

[img]cid:C8297A30-FD9C-4039-9E29-83E8DAEBD9EB[/img]



On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:32 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Glenn

which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

Graham

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gcrowder2

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: Honda?

Graham - I got rid of the NSI drive long ago as I needed more vertical space under the engine for a proper Kuchemann-Weber cooling duct under the engine.  The Marcotte M150 drive made in Canada allowed this as it only has a 1.25" offset between the crankshaft and prop hub.

  

 Fred has solved this problem by going to dual sidemount rads modeled after Alex Bowmans Honda VTEC install - very nice!

  

                                                                       Glenn 



 

   Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:32:44 +0100

From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

Subject: Re: Honda?

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com



   .ExternalClass DIV {;}     Glenn

which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

Graham



 

   From: glenn crowder <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 18:37:40

Subject: RE: Honda?



  .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Go for it Craig!  Don't let any of the doomsayers on this list talk you out of it.  This will be awesome.  The modern 

motorcycle engines are bulletproof.  I run the Sube EA81 engine in my bird and have been totally happy with it and

has been totally reliable at least after I got the cooling system to work!  Your'e going to have 10 times the fun with

your project than all the other plug and play types.  Please post your progress often!

 

                                                          Glenn

  

 

[quote] From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Honda?

 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:10:40 +1000

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 

 Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 wiring loom.

 

 If you have any photos I would love to see them

 

 Regards

 

 craig

 

 --

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: Honda?

Craig

I've always admired the Sube engine, designed originally as an aircraft engine alternative I believe around or after WW2? Pity Rotax didn't copy it. Hope your gearbox is reliable. 



Graham



From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 22:26:25

Subject: Re: Honda?



Graham,



In my case,  my RAM Sube comes w/ an Autoflight, NZ helical gear PSRU...I opted for a 1.9 ratio since my engine has separate air intakes for each cyl. and puts out 140 hp; see:

	http://www.ramengines.com/id5.html

for hp/torque "curves", see:

[img]cid:1.3629628924(at)web87112.mail.ird.yahoo.com[/img]



On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:32 PM, GRAHAM  SINGLETON wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Glenn

which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then  scrap

Graham

140hp_scan.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

138.75 KB

Viewed:

8027 Time(s)

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: Honda?

Thanks Glemm

graham

From: glenn crowder <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 23:21:15

Subject: RE: Honda?

     Graham - I got rid of the NSI drive long ago as I needed more vertical space under the engine for a proper Kuchemann-Weber cooling duct under the engine.  The Marcotte M150 drive made in Canada allowed this as it only has a 1.25" offset between the crankshaft and prop hub.

 Fred has solved this problem by going to dual sidemount rads modeled after Alex Bowmans Honda VTEC install - very nice!

                                                                       Glenn 

   Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:32:44 +0100

From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Honda?

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

    .ExternalClass DIV {}     Glenn

which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

Graham

   From: glenn crowder <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 18:37:40

Subject: RE: Europa-List: Honda?

  .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Go for it Craig!  Don't let any of the doomsayers on this list talk you out of it.  This will be awesome.  The modern 

motorcycle engines are bulletproof.  I run the Sube EA81 engine in my bird and have been totally happy with it and

has been totally reliable at least after I got the cooling system to work!  Your'e going to have 10 times the fun with

your project than all the other plug and play types.  Please post your progress often!

                                                          Glenn

[quote] From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE:  Honda?

 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:10:40 +1000

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 Why I asked, was I have a GSXR1300 Hayabusa engine sitting on the floor

 waiting to go into mine. I have a new crank case being made to remove the

 gearbox, to run a belt re-drive, I intend to de-rate mine by rev limiting it

 to about 7000 rpm which is max torque. The guy making the new bits tells me

 the dressed engine ready to run come in at 140 lbs, that's with 65amp

 alternator, 4 stage vacuum scavenge pump for the sump, starter, flywheel and

 wiring loom.

 If you have any photos I would love to see them

 Regards

 craig

 --

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: Honda?

No I am not using the gearbox, just belt redrive  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

 Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:28 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Honda?  

Craig

 I've always admired the Sube engine, designed originally as an aircraft engine alternative I believe around or after WW2? Pity Rotax didn't copy it. Hope your gearbox is reliable. 

 Graham    

From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2011 22:26:25

 Subject: Re: Honda?

 Graham,    

In my case, my RAM Sube comes w/ an Autoflight, NZ helical gear PSRU...I opted for a 1.9 ratio since my engine has separate air intakes for each cyl. and puts out 140 hp; see:  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  http://www.ramengines.com/id5.html  

for hp/torque "curves", see:  

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC00D0.75250620[/img]  

On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:32 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:  

Glenn

 which reduction drive do you have, toothed belt? The NSA conversion was never reliable imho. That used what they called a "linear cam" or something which was nothing more than a sprag clutch like the old Continental starters. OK for about 500 hours then scrap

 Graham

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138.75 KB

Viewed:

8027 Time(s)

scouttwo(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: Honda?

- Craig



My 05 cbr1000rr longblock weighs 145 lbs w/ the full tranny.



FWF flying is less than 180 lbs.



Taking the final ratio down w/ the chain drive gives me 2750 prop rpm at 

7000k in 6th, 8000k rpm in 5th and 9000k in 4th gear to, say 160 knots?



All the other gears share the wear on the way to 2750 prop rpm.



I know chain tech has doubled the strength and longevity since the eighties.



By using a much larger sprocket as the "small" sprocket, the chain never 

really gets stressed like it would on the bike.



My concern is vibration from custom transmission arrangements.



I know they designed it to work complete.



The last two gears are 1:25 and 1:16 and should endure well.



My power take off is a quill shaft fwd to a remote spool holding the small 

sprocket.



This also isolates the trans from side loads and clocksprings the prop a 

little for a smoother ride.



- Your plan sounds awesome. I'm curious.



The crank normally runs on the clutch basket through gear teeth.



Does this imply you do not need a flywheel other than the alternator?



Imho, I would ask you to consider a chain drive for the damping it can 

provide between the crank and the prop.



Some belts are have zero "give" and can transmit jerk viciously.



Also, chain is rather fire resistant.



Good luck restraining your power madness ... hahaha



Nic - a145xs

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