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nigel(at)yakdisplay.com
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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Yak52 refuses to power up when battery switch turned on. Completely dead. Battery ok. Powers up ok from external power.
Ideas where to look please?
Nigel
----- Reply message -----
From: "Dennis Von Ruden" <dvonruden(at)generalequip.com>
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Primer
Date: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am
While trying to start the engine on my CJ today, the primer failed. Worked normal last time before winter hit Minnesota. Would not pump anything. Just gas trying to come out at the top of the primer. The good news is it will have its annual inspection this week. Have the repair manual. Anything specific we should look at as being the cause of the problem?
Thanks
Dennis
Dennis Von Ruden
President
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBF7C2.4E713830[/img]
620 Alexander Drive S.W.
P.O. Box 334
Owatonna, MN 55060
800.533.0524 voice
+5074515510 voice
877.344.4375 fax
+5074515511 fax
dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)
www.generalequip.com
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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I am going to have to dig into the schematics to give you the exact details, but you have a little bit of troubleshooting to do.
Here's a start from memory.
The very FIRST thing to do is to check the master fuse! It is a 50 amp deal and is located very close to the battery... somewhere. I am not sure where it is on a 52, but it has to be there! Look for it carefully. If you can't find it, just move on.
First, locate your main relay box. Seems to me that on a YAK-52 (remember, I work with 50's for the most part) is accessible from an access panel on the right side of the aircraft just forward of the cockpit. Inside that you will see a box with a cover that has about four screws or knurled nuts on it. This box is about oh... .say a foot wide and about 8 inches tall. This is your main relay and control panel for the aircraft.
Inside of THIS box are a couple of BIG bus bar fuses! CHECK THEM ALL WITH AN OHM-METER! (Disconnect the battery first) These things go bad just from vibration! They really should be replaced with modern circuit breakers, but... whatever. It is highly likely that one of these is bad! Another way to check them is to leave the battery connected. Check for 24 volts on one side of one of them and make sure there is 24 volts on the OTHER side of the same one! (bus bar fuses that is). These things have tabs soldered to the top and bottom so that they can be attached with screws. They don't just "click" in. They are BLACK in color. If you find one bad, you are on to the next step... replacing them! We'll hold off on that for now.
If ALL fuses are good and you have verified that you have 24 volts coming into the relay panel and going through the fuses, you move to the next step.
Inside that same box you are going to see a whole slew of relays.
The switch in your cockpit controls TWO of them. One is for external power and one is for INTERNAL power. So when you flip your master on, your cockpit switch actually provides power to the main power relay COIL, turning IT on and providing power to your aircraft. These two relays look identical and actually are the same exact part number. You can actually REVERSE the two and use the external power relay for the main power relay if you had to.
Find this relay box... open it. Flip on the external power using the cockpit switch. (have external power plugged in). Listen and FEEL for the relay that is turning on. It will have some big wires hooked to it. Once you find THAT relay, look for another right beside it, or darn close to it, that looks EXACTLY the same. That is you MAIN power relay that is turned on when you normally turn on Battery power.
Remove external power.
Check to make sure you have 24 volts from the battery going to this relay. Use a meter and check for it. Find the relay coil wires. Check for proper operation from the cockpit switch.
You could have a bad switch in the cockpit, bad wiring to the relay. Bad relay.
Inside of the cover for this panel there is usually a schematic that will be of great help!
Otherwise, I am going to have to dig this out of reference material. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else has it handy, please throw it in.
Mark
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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As Mark says, check the 50 amp master fuse which is located in the
battery compartment. It is on the right side, aft and behind a cover.
Dennis
On 4/26/2011 12:04 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E wrote:
[quote]
I am going to have to dig into the schematics to give you the exact details, but you have a little bit of troubleshooting to do.
Here's a start from memory.
The very FIRST thing to do is to check the master fuse! It is a 50 amp deal and is located very close to the battery... somewhere. I am not sure where it is on a 52, but it has to be there! Look for it carefully. If you can't find it, just move on.
First, locate your main relay box. Seems to me that on a YAK-52 (remember, I work with 50's for the most part) is accessible from an access panel on the right side of the aircraft just forward of the cockpit. Inside that you will see a box with a cover that has about four screws or knurled nuts on it. This box is about oh... .say a foot wide and about 8 inches tall. This is your main relay and control panel for the aircraft.
Inside of THIS box are a couple of BIG bus bar fuses! CHECK THEM ALL WITH AN OHM-METER! (Disconnect the battery first) These things go bad just from vibration! They really should be replaced with modern circuit breakers, but... whatever. It is highly likely that one of these is bad! Another way to check them is to leave the battery connected. Check for 24 volts on one side of one of them and make sure there is 24 volts on the OTHER side of the same one! (bus bar fuses that is). These things have tabs soldered to the top and bottom so that they can be attached with screws. They don't just "click" in. They are BLACK in color. If you find one bad, you are on to the next step... replacing them! We'll hold off on that for now.
If ALL fuses are good and you have verified that you have 24 volts coming into the relay panel and going through the fuses, you move to the next step.
Inside that same box you are going to see a whole slew of relays.
The switch in your cockpit controls TWO of them. One is for external power and one is for INTERNAL power. So when you flip your master on, your cockpit switch actually provides power to the main power relay COIL, turning IT on and providing power to your aircraft. These two relays look identical and actually are the same exact part number. You can actually REVERSE the two and use the external power relay for the main power relay if you had to.
Find this relay box... open it. Flip on the external power using the cockpit switch. (have external power plugged in). Listen and FEEL for the relay that is turning on. It will have some big wires hooked to it. Once you find THAT relay, look for another right beside it, or darn close to it, that looks EXACTLY the same. That is you MAIN power relay that is turned on when you normally turn on Battery power.
Remove external power.
Check to make sure you have 24 volts from the battery going to this relay. Use a meter and check for it. Find the relay coil wires. Check for proper operation from the cockpit switch.
You could have a bad switch in the cockpit, bad wiring to the relay. Bad relay.
Inside of the cover for this panel there is usually a schematic that will be of great help!
Otherwise, I am going to have to dig this out of reference material. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else has it handy, please throw it in.
Mark
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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Master switch, and I think there are some fuses or fusible links in the power distribution box as well..
On Apr 26, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
| Quote: | Yak52 refuses to power up when battery switch turned on. Completely dead. Battery ok. Powers up ok from external power.
Ideas where to look please?
Nigel
----- Reply message -----
From: "Dennis Von Ruden" <dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)>
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Engine Primer
Date: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am
While trying to start the engine on my CJ today, the primer failed. Worked normal last time before winter hit Minnesota. Would not pump anything. Just gas trying to come out at the top of the primer. The good news is it will have its annual inspection this week. Have the repair manual. Anything specific we should look at as being the cause of the problem?
Thanks
Dennis
Dennis Von Ruden
President
620 Alexander Drive S.W.
P.O. Box 334
Owatonna, MN 55060
800.533.0524 voice
+5074515510 voice
877.344.4375 fax
+5074515511 fax
dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)
www.generalequip.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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We once exchanged the main relay in the big box on a 52 with the one used for the external power. It was a speed repair for someone with a G Yak who had to leave urgently for a meeting.
As Mark said, both relays are exactly the same. The one for the external power should be as good as new since barely used.
In the 50 this main box is black and from metal, in the 52 it is made of some kind of plastic or composite and probably not black but grey. At least that’s what I have seen on several occasions, maybe that’s not a general rule.
You can access this box from the panel  on the right side on the 52. This box is situated on the same place on the firewall in the 50 and the 52 (upper right corner at the inside seen from the cockpit).
But it’s logical to look at the fuse first.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: dinsdag 26 april 2011 6:41
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak52 electrical failure
Yak52 refuses to power up when battery switch turned on. Completely dead. Battery ok. Powers up ok from external power.
Ideas where to look please?
Nigel
----- Reply message -----
From: "Dennis Von Ruden" <dvonruden(at)generalequip.com>
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Engine Primer
Date: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am
While trying to start the engine on my CJ today, the primer failed. Worked normal last time before winter hit Minnesota. Would not pump anything. Just gas trying to come out at the top of the primer. The good news is it will have its annual inspection this week. Have the repair manual. Anything specific we should look at as being the cause of the problem?
Thanks
Dennis
Dennis Von Ruden
President
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBF7C2.4E713830[/img]
620 Alexander Drive S.W.
P.O. Box 334
Owatonna, MN 55060
800.533.0524 voice
+5074515510 voice
877.344.4375 fax
+5074515511 fax
dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)
www.generalequip.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL INFORMATION IN THIS EMAIL, AND/OR ATTACHMENT(S) IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you received this e mail in error, and are not the recipient(s) or responsible for receiving this e mail for the recipient, please inform the sender immediately, delete the e mail and any attachment(s) associated.
This email has been scanned by Barracuda - Email Security System.
~
[quote][b]
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Yak52 electrical failure |
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The 52 box is grey with two knurled knobs on it which are lock-wired together.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Jan Mevis wrote:
| Quote: | We once exchanged the main relay in the big box on a 52 with the one used for the external power. It was a speed repair for someone with a G Yak who had to leave urgently for a meeting.
As Mark said, both relays are exactly the same. The one for the external power should be as good as new since barely used.
In the 50 this main box is black and from metal, in the 52 it is made of some kind of plastic or composite and probably not black but grey. At least that’s what I have seen on several occasions, maybe that’s not a general rule.
You can access this box from the panel on the right side on the 52. This box is situated on the same place on the firewall in the 50 and the 52 (upper right corner at the inside seen from the cockpit).
But it’s logical to look at the fuse first.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: dinsdag 26 april 2011 6:41
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak52 electrical failure
Yak52 refuses to power up when battery switch turned on. Completely dead. Battery ok. Powers up ok from external power.
Ideas where to look please?
Nigel
----- Reply message -----
From: "Dennis Von Ruden" <dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)>
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Engine Primer
Date: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am
While trying to start the engine on my CJ today, the primer failed. Worked normal last time before winter hit Minnesota. Would not pump anything. Just gas trying to come out at the top of the primer. The good news is it will have its annual inspection this week. Have the repair manual. Anything specific we should look at as being the cause of the problem?
Thanks
Dennis
Dennis Von Ruden
President
620 Alexander Drive S.W.
P.O. Box 334
Owatonna, MN 55060
800.533.0524 voice
+5074515510 voice
877.344.4375 fax
+5074515511 fax
dvonruden(at)generalequip.com (dvonruden(at)generalequip.com)
www.generalequip.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rob Rowe
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: Berkshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Yak52 electrical failure |
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Nigel,
All good advice you've been given ... have some further thoughts for your consideration which may be carried out from the relative comfort of the rear cockpit without having to get inside relay boxes etc.
With ref to the attached simple schematic of the battery power feed.
1 - With the Master Switch set to 'Battery' check to see if the REAR cockpit 'Battery On' annunciator light is illuminated.
If it is lit then most likely the DC Relay Box relay coil #6 ('BAT/1' - my nomenclature) has failed open / bad connections / mechanically failed, which can be replaced temporarily with #7 ('GDP/1' - my nomenclature) ... as already advised. The Russian relay type is 'TKD-501DOD' (anglicised).
Note - there is a 2A annunciator light fuse that could also stop this lighting, but very unlikely this will have blown
2 - If the 'Battery On' light is not lit, then turn the Master Switch OFF & try the following;
a/ in the REAR cockpit gently remove the green tinted plastic cover off the 'Battery On' annunciator light & remove the two bulbs inside
b/ obtain an electrical multimeter and set a RESISTANCE range of 0-2000 ohms (or similar), use this to measure the resistance across the bulb socket contacts (either socket will do as they're wired in parallel)
c/ no reading (open circuit) - double check you've made good connections. Or previously mentioned 2A fuse has blown or relay #6 coil connections are bad in relay box
d/ meter reads close to zero ohms - the relay coil #6 has failed short and probably taken out the 50A fuse with it. Test 50A fuse continuity first. Then remove relay #6, retest to make sure the short has been removed, replace with relay #7, retest again to make sure the short has been removed and only then replace the 50A fuse as needed
e/ meter reads somewhere between 50 to 400 ohms - suggests the relay coil #6 is OK (it may have mechanically failed though), therefore either the Master Switch has failed and is not providing an earth or something else such as a wiring fault. If meter reading much higher than 400 ohms then possibly relay coil #6 connections are poor.
f/ Master Switch failure - with the Master Switch still OFF, set your multimeter to a DC VOLTS range of 200V (or similar). Place the black lead on a bare metal chassis earth point and the red lead on each of the bulb socket contacts in turn. If you get a voltage reading on both contacts of c.24V then the Master Switch, or its intermediate wiring, is failing to complete the circuit by not providing an earth (it also proves your 50A fuse is intact)
g/ Wiring fault - you need to get a professional avionics guy in to help as this is non trivial to identify
WARNING - this is theory, I've not done this myself so YMMV ... however little harm can be done either. It's not intended to cover every eventuality but should at least help localise the issue.
As always though if in doubt ... don't!
Hope this helps.
Brgds, Rob Rowe
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| Description: |
| YAK-52 Power Schema extract |
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aero49
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Yak52 electrical failure |
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Had same problem with my Yak52. The master relay has a U shaped copper strap that connects the ouput side of the relay to the aircraft bus bars. The screws holding the master relay in place had worked loose allowing the relay to move a little and the vibration caused the U shaped strap to break in two places. I replaced the strap with aircraft wire and tightened the screws holding the relay in place.
Easy to inspect ( and fix)
Cecil Boyd
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