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Firewall materiel?

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: Firewall materiel?

I was emailing the McBeans about a couple items including my firewall blanket which I think could stand replacement along with the engine swap.  Talking with Debra prompted me to do a little searching online which showed me that nothing fire retardant looked like what I currently have which is grey cloth almost vinyl looking quilted with a thin foam core and plastic backing. I can get pictures later.  Well I did a burn test on a sample and it is flammable and smells quite toxic when afire.  Does this sound

Like what others are using?  So were these blankets intended as sound reduction only?  Am I just crazy and my blanket has simply absorbed too much oil/fuel?

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

 	  WurlyBird wrote: 	
		  I was emailing the McBeans about a couple items including my firewall blanket which I think could stand replacement along with the engine swap.  Talking with Debra prompted me to do a little searching online which showed me that nothing fire retardant looked like what I currently have which is grey cloth almost vinyl looking quilted with a thin foam core and plastic backing. I can get pictures later.  Well I did a burn test on a sample and it is flammable and smells quite toxic when afire.  Does this sound

Like what others are using?  So were these blankets intended as sound reduction only?  Am I just crazy and my blanket has simply absorbed too much oil/fuel? 	




James, I wasn't aware that the blanket was ever supposed to fire retardant, but merely a noise reducer that works by absorbing sound. 

Deke

NE Michigan

S5

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

Everyone should have firewall protection. Many have firewall blankets that are fire resistant. It is an ASTM standard. Flight Design's first models didn't have them so FD had to retrofit 110 planes at a cost of a free firewall kit and they paid the first $1000 out of the $1450 for the install. It shouldn't be in place for noise it should be there for safety and to protect its occupants. If you do not have any firewall protection you should install some. They make firewall blankets which are fairly easy to install. I have do quite a few on different aircraft. You can get it from Aircraft Spruce or a few others. If you need info on how it is installed give me a call.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

Well good, so I am not crazy. I was looking at Aircraft Spruce and they had a few materials. Any suggestions or experience with any of them?  I will probably go with one of the mattings that is retardant and sound reducing.  Looks like it should be ampretty straight forward install.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

dholly

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Upstate NY

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

James- 



Another option here: http://www.aircraftextras.com/Contego.htm



Regards

_________________
-Kitfox III 582 Blue/C Grove Spring / Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
-Airdale Avid+ (project) TD / W.I.B. Gear

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: Firewall materiel?

Think about it

Mil spec wiring- tefzel

firesleeve

SS firewall -- Galv steel no good....



cheap vinyl blanket.....

hmmm



rubber hoses



urethane hoses



hmmm



Dave



---

_________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
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jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: Firewall materiel?

Roger,

	A firewall blanket or protection is not an ASTM standard.  A fire

resistant firewall is and .018 Stainless firewall meets the ASTM

requirements. And there is a proposal for allowing .016 SS



As for the older blanket.. I do not believe them to be fireproof.. just

sound reduction.



F 2245-07



7.6 Fire Prevention—The engine, if enclosed, must be

isolated from the rest of the airplane by a firewall or shroud. It

must be constructed as far as practical to prevent liquid, gas, or

flames, or a combination thereof, from entering the airplane.

The use of any one of the following materials shall be

acceptable without further testing:

7.6.1 Stainless steel, not less than 0.46 mm (0.018 in.) thick,

7.6.2 Mild steel (corrosion-protected), not less than 0.46

mm (0.018 in.) thick, or

7.6.3 Alternative materials that provide protection equivalent

to 7.6.1 or 7.6.2.

Fly Safe !!

John McBean

Ph 208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com 

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground" 



--

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

I agree it was just my poor terminology. Never the less FD had to do 110 planes to meet the ASTM standard. Out of 110 planes there are only a few die hards left. I have two to do this month with the Rotax 5 year rubber replacement. They are easy to install, but everything on the firewall needs to come off with a couple of exceptions. The engine mount and all the other accessories mounted to the firewall holds it in place. Then you can use aluminum tape to make the edges nice and neat. The FD firewall blanket is a stainless steel thick foil with a batting on the back. You do need to be careful around the edges because it is like a very sharp knife. You also need to make sure all your oil and fuel lines are encased in firesleeve. The #10 fits the fuel lines and the #14 the oil lines.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: Firewall materiel?

Roger,



A little confused here.  Are you suggesting that because Flight Designs 

requires the blanket be replaced that I do the same to my Kitfox?  just 

wondering.



Lowell



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>

Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:30 PM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Firewall materiel?



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I agree it was just my poor terminology. Never the less FD had to do 110 

 planes to meet the ASTM standard. Out of 110 planes there are only a few 

 die hards left. I have two to do this month with the Rotax 5 year rubber 

 replacement. They are easy to install, but everything on the firewall 

 needs to come off with a couple of exceptions. The engine mount and all 

 the other accessories mounted to the firewall holds it in place. Then you 

 can use aluminum tape to make the edges nice and neat. The FD firewall 

 blanket is a stainless steel thick foil with a batting on the back. You do 

 need to be careful around the edges because it is like a very sharp knife. 

 You also need to make sure all your oil and fuel lines are encased in 

 firesleeve. The #10 fits the fuel lines and the #14 the oil lines.



 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

 Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

 Rotax Repair Center

 Home 520-574-1080  TRY HOME FIRST

 Cell 520-349-7056





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339178#339178

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: Firewall materiel?

looked in the ACS catalog and got frustrated that I could not find the firesleeve material.  I know its there.  Can anyone help. 

  

John Kerr

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Firewall materiel?

On 5/9/2011 9:05 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  looked in the ACS catalog and got frustrated that I could not find the firesleeve material.Â  I know its there.Â  Can anyone help. 	
 

 You mean a printed catalogue? What a concept.   

 

 I typed "fire sleeve" into the ACS search engine and ended up with a bunch of hits:

 

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/blkfirejacket.php

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aqfiresleeve.php

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stratofs.php

 

 Ain't I nice?

 

 Guy Buchanan

 Ramona, CA

 Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

 

 

    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Firewall materiel?

Hi Lowell,



The SLSA group is a little different than the ELSA or the experimental group. The ELSA group gets to pick and choose a little more. I will say some choose a little too less. The SLSA Mfg group definitely follows ASTM standards much more closely and FD was required to do this mod. Some SLSA Mfgs also try to really keep up on doing the right thing. Is it a good idea to have firewall protection? Absolutely. Are you required to do it with your Kit Fox experimental, no, but it's still a good thing to do to protect you and in case of an engine fire it will give you a little extra time to land or get out. I had a friend that died in a aircraft fire before he could get down. He had no protection on anything. FD had a carbon fiber composite firewall, if you have a stainless steel wall then it may be a moot point. If it is required then your set, if you have an experimental then you need to decide what side of the fence to fall on.



What's the old saying:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Firewall materiel?

tough to wean an old guy from his printed catalog.  I grew up with sears as a multipurpose paper product. 

  

John Kerr 

Classic Kitfox IV, 912ul, 815 hours. 



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