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toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
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 Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Anyone ever get this type of response from FSDO (see below)?
-Chris
#40072 (interior)
Sir,
I was informed that we do not have a budget for this certification. You will need to get with a DAR.
If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call.
Thanks,
Aviation Safety Inspector
FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC.
[quote][b]
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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No, but I was told they will come at their convenience which could take months.
Ironically, I paid for the DAR to come out (400$) and the FAA came out too for five hours and they inspected together.
I guess the DAR's get two inspections from the FAA per year.
[quote] ---
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_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Kinda makes you want to go right out and pay your taxes, don't it ???
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
--------
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Eric_Kallio
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: airworthiness inspection |
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My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
Eric
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toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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hah! I did leave off names o protect the guilty!
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:43 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: airworthiness inspection
Chris,
I think you left off the last part of the communication…
| Quote: | >If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call before our phones are disconnected.
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| Quote: | >Aviation Safety Inspector
>FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC.
|
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 5:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: airworthiness inspection
Anyone ever get this type of response from FSDO (see below)?
-Chris
#40072 (interior)
Sir,
I was informed that we do not have a budget for this certification. You will need to get with a DAR.
If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call.
Thanks,
Aviation Safety Inspector
FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC.
= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=================
http://forums.matronics.com
=================
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.13701234567890
[quote][b]
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coop85(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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I've had 5 inspections of this type, never a response like that. Hard to believe he could "be of MORE help".
DARs are good, but not free like the FSDO inspector is supposed to be.
Marcus
do not archive
On May 10, 2011, at 8:23 PM, Chris wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone ever get this type of response from FSDO (see below)?
-Chris
#40072 (interior)
Sir,
I was informed that we do not have a budget for this certification. You will need to get with a DAR.
If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call.
Thanks,
Aviation Safety Inspector
FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC.
| Quote: |
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Well, if you like to live on the rogue side of the tracks, you could
just tell them that if they don't think it is important enough for them
to inspect, you agree with them, and will just go fly it.  )
Or you could say you were contacting your congressional delegation to
find out why inspecting new aircraft doesn't merit their attention, when
the highest percentage of accidents come from experimental aircraft. No
FAA region likes responding to congressional inquiries.
On 5/10/2011 6:46 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
| Quote: |
My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
Eric
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Hmmmm, I'd agree, but, then they may take it out on you in a toooo
detailed inspection that never makes it to sign-off. 
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 5/10/2011 9:09 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
Well, if you like to live on the rogue side of the tracks, you could
just tell them that if they don't think it is important enough for them
to inspect, you agree with them, and will just go fly it. )
Or you could say you were contacting your congressional delegation to
find out why inspecting new aircraft doesn't merit their attention, when
the highest percentage of accidents come from experimental aircraft. No
FAA region likes responding to congressional inquiries.
On 5/10/2011 6:46 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
>
>
> My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't
> do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA
> full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their
> target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see
> how fast they show up.
>
> Eric
|
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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FAA in Detroit (YIP) drove 46 miles to do the airworthiness inspection last Monday for my RV-10.... But I have been working with them since last Fall. Just like everything else, takes proper planning.
Look for my first flight soon....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On May 10, 2011, at 9:46 PM, "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339507#339507
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taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> It's probably more like:
>>If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call before I retire next month at 54 with full salary for life.
[quote]>Aviation Safety Inspector
>FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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No that's airline pilots and it is forced retirement and 20% of the old pension benefits. Give 600% raise to corporate.
Wait and see if Paul Ryan's plans comes on board. Talk about not in the budget.
We will give tax breaks to the the wealthiest Americans for their super sized RVs complete with fully equipped bathrooms. When the few lower class citizens(folks) who actually can afford a car or the gas for it want to stop along the side of the road to go #2, there will be no funding to keep the bathrooms open at the rest stops.
No problem, the Rvs will be equipped with an outdoor shower to rinse the wealthy RV's boots free of all the excrement laying on the road, especially excrement from all them dam illegal immigrants. Poo is Poo.
What a waste of money those NOAA tsunami buoys and sensors are, that is until everyone on the coast needs them. To hell with the people on the coast! The same could be said about NOAA and the tornado warning system...to hell with the inlanders. Let it all go private, where's the profit? Or if so, more like extortion.
No free lunch brother. Everybody cries when it effect their interest, but complains about the cost when it has nothing to do with their needs.
No simple solutions and don't assume there is.
Too much bureaucracy...we need Gaddafi, he might be looking for a new place to set up his tent.
Looks like I took the bait!
From: taildragon(at)msn.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: airworthiness inspection
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 20:41:47 -0700
.ExternalClass .ecxshape {;} .ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.ecxHTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;} .ExternalClass p.ecxavgcert, .ExternalClass li.ecxavgcert, .ExternalClass div.ecxavgcert {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';} .ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle20 {font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} .ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle21 {font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} .ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle22 {font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} .ExternalClass .ecxMsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} (at)page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.ecxWordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} It's probably more like:
>>If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to call before I retire next month at 54 with full salary for life.
[quote]>Aviation Safety Inspector
>FSDO AEA-39 Greensboro NC
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John Ackerman
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Here's another 2 cents worth.
I wanted to have all the experienced eyes I could get look over my 10 before flight. A couple of those sets of eyes were friends who were airworthiness inspectors from the local FSDO. These guys looked at the plane individually, at least once for more than three hours, and one person looked at it at several stages of construction. They did this at no charge, and on their own time. Believe me, it was really appreciated. Even though there was not an awful lot found, I still got really good suggestions and in-depth discussions.
We discussed whether to have one of the FAA airworthiness inspectors do the inspection, and decided instead to employ Gary Towner, an uncommonly highly regarded (by everyone I talked to, and that was a least a dozen folks who should know) DAR. That was a really good call. Although the main function of the inspection is to get the paperwork all straight, (what can I say? It's not a perfect world) Gary did an excellent physical inspection of the airplane, and was in no hurry to get it over with. By the way - when one of the FSDO folks wanted his own RV inspected, guess who got the job? Yep, Gary did.
The way the system works is that the overall cost of having DARs do the actual inspections and the FSDO guys look over their shoulders occasionally is much less than having the FSDO guys do the actual inspections. It cost me personally four hundred more bucks this way than if the FAA did the inspection "for free", but frankly, it was worth it to me. It also cost the rest of you poor taxpayers a lot less than the direct and overhead costs of employing the additional inspectors that would be required.
IIRC, one of us posted that he had both a DAR and an airworthiness inspector from the FAA at his inspection. The function of the FAA guys (as far as airworthiness inspections goes) is to make sure that the DARs do an inspection that meets the FAA's standards. This means they witness inspections being done from time to time.It works the same way with airman certification - the job is almost always done by a Designated Pilot Examiner, sometimes with an FAA Operations Inspector looking over his/her shoulder. Not a bad system at all.
John Ackerman
On May 10, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
| Quote: |
FAA in Detroit (YIP) drove 46 miles to do the airworthiness inspection last Monday for my RV-10.... But I have been working with them since last Fall. Just like everything else, takes proper planning.
Look for my first flight soon....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On May 10, 2011, at 9:46 PM, "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339507#339507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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in the interest of full disclosure, I believe that John has a relative
working at the FSDO. I have not expected service from the FSDO and am not
disappointed.
---
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John Ackerman
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Dave I don't think "full disclosure" is an issue here, but lest there be any confusion, you are 100% correct. I tried to make it obvious that two of the sets of eyes were those of folks who work at the FSDO although those two were acting strictly as my personal friends and on their own time.
The way that I came to know those particular two friends (my relative) is as totally irrelevant as is the way that I came to know you (this list). What is relevant is that after trying very hard to get all the competent review I could, I still found considerable merit in hiring a really good DAR, specifically Gary Towner, to do the inspection. BTW, thanks for being one of the helpful sets of eyes.
DLM wrote:
| Quote: | I have not expected service from the FSDO and am not disappointed.
|
For my part, I have not asked for nor have I received any services from the FSDO, and hope I never have to. Out.
John Ackerman
On May 11, 2011, at 11:30 AM, DLM wrote:
[quote]
in the interest of full disclosure, I believe that John has a relative working at the FSDO. I have not expected service from the FSDO and am not disappointed.
---
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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I have no problem using the DAR system; the last time I got a free service
from the FAA was when they provided CFI/II rides in 1970s. Many reviews make
the first flight unremarkable.
---
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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John you should be commended in your effort to find a conscientious and
accurate DAR inspection. I could site too many who for a fee will
"flash review" the paperwork and sign "Good to Go". A great DAR leaves
you feeling good about the process and a meaningful road to travel on
the Phase 1 (& beyond). A great DAR knows the aircraft he is signing
(in this case the RV-10), let's you now some of the Gotcha's and imparts
wisdom he/she acquired on their path to the authorization.
I have always been impressed when a builder asks his peers to do a once
over before the DAR arrival. As a former DPE, I know all too well the
role of the FAA bringing a second set of eyes in reviewing the work of a
Designee. May all your flights be memorable, your learning continue and
each landing uneventful for you insurance policy.
Many applicants have a less than accurate idea of what is to be
accomplished during a DAR Airworthiness authorization. Some think the
DAR is going to find every last build issue which might lead to a future
incident/accident. Not so, I was always on my best behavior during a
FSDO review. I could name for you patterns even with the RV-10 which can
be missed. The pressure was on the DPE to issue the license unless the
applicant clearly missed the intend of the review. A great DAR leaves
you with what your next Conditional Inspection should be looking for.
This list posts many of those issues which deserve attention before they
become a statistic. Most builders just built it the way it was designed
and go no further. You have done it one better.
John Cox, #40600
--
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bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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I'm sure either one of those response's would make your eventual inspection a dream. But it would be fun to get their reaction.
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, May 10, 2011 7:09:52 PM
Subject: Re: Re: airworthiness inspection
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
Well, if you like to live on the rogue side of the tracks, you could just tell them that if they don't think it is important enough for them to inspect, you agree with them, and will just go fly it. )
Or you could say you were contacting your congressional delegation to find out why inspecting new aircraft doesn't merit their attention, when the highest percentage of accidents come from experimental aircraft. No FAA region likes responding to congressional inquiries.
On 5/10/2011 6:46 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio"<scout019(at)msn.com (scout019(at)msn.com)>
My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
Eric
|
[quote][b]
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bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Gary did mine too, very thorough and he is a good guy.
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 10:48:42 AM
Subject: Re: Re: airworthiness inspection
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net (johnag5b(at)cableone.net)>
Here's another 2 cents worth.
I wanted to have all the experienced eyes I could get look over my 10 before flight. A couple of those sets of eyes were friends who were airworthiness inspectors from the local FSDO. These guys looked at the plane individually, at least once for more than three hours, and one person looked at it at several stages of construction. They did this at no charge, and on their own time. Believe me, it was really appreciated. Even though there was not an awful lot found, I still got really good suggestions and in-depth discussions.
We discussed whether to have one of the FAA airworthiness inspectors do the inspection, and decided instead to employ Gary Towner, an uncommonly highly regarded (by everyone I talked to, and that was a least a dozen folks who should know) DAR. That was a really good call. Although the main function of the inspection is to get the paperwork all straight, (what can I say? It's not a perfect world) Gary did an excellent physical inspection of the airplane, and was in no hurry to get it over with. By the way - when one of the FSDO folks wanted his own RV inspected, guess who got the job? Yep, Gary did.
The way the system works is that the overall cost of having DARs do the actual inspections and the FSDO guys look over their shoulders occasionally is much less than having the FSDO guys do the actual inspections. It cost me personally four hundred more bucks this way than if the FAA did the inspection "for free", but frankly, it was worth it to me. It also cost the rest of you poor taxpayers a lot less than the direct and overhead costs of employing the additional inspectors that would be required.
IIRC, one of us posted that he had both a DAR and an airworthiness inspector from the FAA at his inspection. The function of the FAA guys (as far as airworthiness inspections goes) is to make sure that the DARs do an inspection that meets the FAA's standards. This means they witness inspections being done from time to time.It works the same way with airman certification - the job is almost always done by a Designated Pilot Examiner, sometimes with an FAA Operations Inspector looking over his/her shoulder. Not a bad system at all.
John Ackerman
On May 10, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
FAA in Detroit (YIP) drove 46 miles to do the airworthiness inspection last Monday for my RV-10.... But I have been working with them since last Fall. Just like everything else, takes proper planning.
Look for my first flight soon....
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On May 10, 2011, at 9:46 PM, "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com (scout019(at)msn.com)> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com (scout019(at)msn.com)>
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> My airport is 16 miles from the FSDO. They flat out said they couldn't do it. I even fly with a pilot in the Guard that worked for the FAA full time and even he couldn't get them out there. We are not their target audience. Paint Delta on the side of your plane though, and see how fast they show up.
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> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339507#339507
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: airworthiness inspection |
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Here's my FSDO (Oakland, CA) story:
I call, get a receptionist. She takes my number, says someone will call back.
Amazingly, someone does. He identifies himself as the "supervisor". We talk, he says no problem, we'll schedule your A/W inspection for the week after next. He says he'll assign a specific inspector, who will call me with the exact time and date.
Next day, assigned inspector calls, and in very pleasant voice leaves a voice mail: "I'm too busy to do this. I suggest a DAR. Call me back if I can be of any more help."
It seems like the left hand doesn't know what the right one is doing, down there at the FSDO.
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Bob Turner
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rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: airworthiness inspection |
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Call the left hand back and tell him you're too busy to find a DAR, and you
need another inspector who DOES have time.
With that said, I have a DAR, he knows RV's , not many FSDO's know much
about your specific aircraft as a RV builder that is a RV DAR.
I could easily get a FAA person to look at my plane but I chose to get it
inspected correctly (aka- knowledge of the aircraft), sure it will cost me
money. But in this case.. it's worth it.
I would still call the supervisor anyway.. just to make him aware what his
folks are doing, The folks here in SoCal are a good group of guys, most
really do want to help and volunteer to come to meetings at my CAP squadron
to do presentations and get feedback on Sectional changes and anything else
they can do. They mean it too, I ask and they gladly were willing to come
out and look at my plane. I deferred, not them. My point is I think you will
get someone to come out and look at your plane if that is what you want.
--
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