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ADS-B Pull

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

Did anyone else catch the Avweb news on the FAA's disabling of

ADS-B in Alaska?  No real comment other than to say that the

FAA must be pretty screwed up.  IMHO, ADS-B and TIS both

should be turned on and enabled in all the states.



http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/634-full.html



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

It was always the quiet little driver that ADS-B would extend coverage

over areas "Not covered by conventional radar". Alaska was selected for

Capstone for just this reason. The FAA has long wanted to move away from

installation of new, and maintenance of existing radar based services.

(It takes a horrendous amount of their systems budget.) This is kind of

like a carrier catapult launch.  Many in the FAA engineering branch are

hopeful that Alaska will fair well and the system will be slowly

disconnected in many mid and low congestion areas.



I think it is a question of whether the airlines can win the political

power struggle.  GA is clearly the dog's tail in this fight.  It may

prove to be just a stub of a tail at that.



The FAA motto was to "stop looking at past technology and embrace the

future".  Don't remain complacent with radar based data for traffic

separation - just weather.



John Cox



--

morgjj

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

I think that it just representative of the FAA under there current admin

and structure.  This is one of the best things that have come along

since GPS, as far as I can see.  There situational awareness is huge and

it is disappointing that the project has been put on hold, for what

appears very little reason.



Hopefully reason will step in and maybe AOPA and push a bit hard outside

the FAA to push this safety info back in.



Jeff

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

Hmmmm.



I read the article and it ***APPEARS*** to me that they are saying " ... hold on a second, we have some operational issues with how this integrates with the controllers activities so we are going to tak a month or two to get it all sorted out and back online ..". 



**IF** this is the case, then it may very well be a **GOOD THING** that they are making sure it is all sorted out before a big rollout. Otherwise to fix something later would be REALLY expensive **and** inconvenient. 



Let's give the the chance to get it right before we say they have "pulled the plug".



My comments are not directed at anyone in particular ... just an alternate view.

James

 On 5/11/06, Jeffery J. Morgan <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>

I think that it just representative of the FAA under there current admin 

and structure.  This is one of the best things that have come along

since GPS, as far as I can see.  There situational awareness is huge and

it is disappointing that the project has been put on hold, for what

 appears very little reason.



Hopefully reason will step in and maybe AOPA and push a bit hard outside

the FAA to push this safety info back i "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/  p;                      -Matt Dralle, Li> 



	


-- 

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com .

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Did anyone else catch the Avweb news on the FAA's disabling of

 ADS-B in Alaska?  No real comment other than to say that the


	


	I do not believe they disabled the whole ADS-B system, they simply

disabled it from being displayed on the radar controller's screen.

I believe the system is still up and running as far as the information

the pilot gets in the airplane, it is just that at the Anchorage

site only the controllers cannot see the blips on their screens.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From the article, "Other ADS-B services remain available, he said.

"Users are getting traffic information services, flight following, etc."
	


Also new ground units that are due to go online in the next month will

be implemented on schedule, he said, and will provide expanded ADS-B

services."



My half cents, FWIW,

-Dj

do not archive

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

I very much agree with your general comments.  The thing that's

crazy is, it ran for so long, yet suddenly it's time to

shut it off while they review it.  Why can't they just conduct

their reviews and leave it run?  It seems if controllers are

abusing their operational methods, those should be able to

be handled without taking a system down.  I know at any

regular company we'd have internal discussions, and then follow

it up with new procedures, and then some consequences if the

procedures weren't followed.  Working at a hospital I'm used to

a constant review and refinement process.  It's just too

bad that the FAA apparently can't manage itself.  I do hope

they work it out before rolling it out in the lower 48.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

James Clark wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hmmmm.

 

 I read the article and it ***APPEARS*** to me that they are saying " ... 

 hold on a second, we have some operational issues with how this 

 integrates with the controllers activities so we are going to tak a 

 month or two to get it all sorted out and back online ..".

 

 **IF** this is the case, then it may very well be a **GOOD THING** that 

 they are making sure it is all sorted out before a big rollout. 

 Otherwise to fix something later would be REALLY expensive **and** 

 inconvenient.

 

 Let's give the the chance to get it right before we say they have 

 "pulled the plug".

 

 My comments are not directed at anyone in particular ... just an 

 alternate view.

 

 

 James

 

 

 On 5/11/06, *Jeffery J. Morgan* <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com> wrote:

 

     

     <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>

 

 

     I think that it just representative of the FAA under there current

     admin

     and structure.  This is one of the best things that have come along

     since GPS, as far as I can see.  There situational awareness is huge and

     it is disappointing that the project has been put on hold, for what

     appears very little reason.

 

     Hopefully reason will step in and maybe AOPA and push a bit hard outside

     the FAA to push this safety info back i

     "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/

     p;                      -Matt Dralle, Li>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at 

 james(at)nextupventures.com .

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

My interpretation of this is that it is strictly a temporary procedural issue.  Go figure, the FAA bogging down in procedural issues.  If you read closely the program isn’t shut down, nor is the service, it is strictly the screens in ATC.  Airborne equipment is still operating and they are going forward with full roll out in Alaska.  I agree that this is reading as a bigger issue than it is as long as the airborne equipment is still operating.  It appears that ATC simply isn’t seeing the data nor could you expect advisories from ATC.  While I am not defending the FAA, remember that AVWEB is a media outlet and will go for “shock & aw” for reader impact. 

   

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build Activity

    

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:11 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: ADS-B Pull

 

  

Hmmmm.



I read the article and it ***APPEARS*** to me that they are saying " ... hold on a second, we have some operational issues with how this integrates with the controllers activities so we are going to tak a month or two to get it all sorted out and back online ..". 



**IF** this is the case, then it may very well be a **GOOD THING** that they are making sure it is all sorted out before a big rollout. Otherwise to fix something later would be REALLY expensive **and** inconvenient. 



Let's give the the chance to get it right before we say they have "pulled the plug".



My comments are not directed at anyone in particular ... just an alternate view.

James



  

On 5/11/06, Jeffery J. Morgan <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com> wrote: 

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>

I think that it just representative of the FAA under there current admin 

and structure.  This is one of the best things that have come along

since GPS, as far as I can see.  There situational awareness is huge and

it is disappointing that the project has been put on hold, for what

appears very little reason.



Hopefully reason will step in and maybe AOPA and push a bit hard outside

the FAA to push this safety info back i "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/ p;                      -Matt Dralle, Li> 



 



-- 

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com .

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

A close friend works for the FAA in placement of largesse funds.  Last

year she was roundly verbally abused by an aide from Sen. Gordon Smith's

office (R - OR) for her public comments on the ADS-B plan (and stating

the facts).  Many smaller communities wanted radar investments in their

Podunk communities.  We did a public presentation on ADS-B last May to

the Oregon Pilots Association and we publicly announced the move to

disconnect the radar surveillance portion (Long Term). Randy Kenagy from

AOPA was present.



It is my personal opinion that the excerpt from AVWEB is being

misquoted.  ADS-B is alive and well in Alaska, as well as the Eastern

Seaboard from FL though MD.  It provides a level of protection over DC

which is not being reported for homeland security reasons.  Oregon is

finally getting on board to serve its Podunk communities (those without

multiple legacy carriers).  Investments in radar should be considered

old technology and the link to radar with ADS-B was a short term trail

relationship.  Trail is over. The ADS-B system will cost GA owners

billions with a B for the equipment and the disconnect of radar

repeaters will save the FAA billions.  It's all about privatization.

Moving the cost burden to the end users.  Oh Yeh, the air carriers will

still get radar services.



I think you will find ADS-B will remain alive and well in AK but without

the ATC controllers watching on their screens. Remember ADF and VOR A

approaches up north?



John Cox - don't shoot the messengers.



--

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: ADS-B Pull

"Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B)

What is ADS-B?

Simply put, ADS-B is the future of air traffic control. Instead of using

radar data to keep aircraft at safe distances from one another, in the

future, signals from Global Positioning Satellites will provide air

traffic controllers and pilots with much more accurate information that

will help keep aircraft safely separated in the sky and on runways. 



Eventually, with ADS-B, some of the responsibility for keeping safe

distances between aircraft will shift from air traffic controllers on

the ground to pilots who will have displays in the cockpits pinpointing

all the air traffic around them, along with local weather displays."



Exact excerpt from FAA Fact Sheet 

For Immediate Release

May 2, 2006

Contact: Rebecca Trexler 

Phone: (202) 267-3883



This is consistent with public remarks at Oregon Pilots Association

meeting of May 5th, 2005 - ONE YEAR AGO.



John Cox



--

sfdarton(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: ADS-B Pull

"FAA Management" is an oxymoron! We just barely

commissioned the STARS RADAR replacement system that

was supposed to be in use nearly 8 years ago. While it

was years behind schedule at least it was BILLIONS

over budget. I expect no less form "FAA Management" on

ADS-B.



Steve 40212

FAA Air Traffic Controller 25 years 



--- Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

 

 I very much agree with your general comments.  The

 thing that's

 crazy is, it ran for so long, yet suddenly it's time

 to

 shut it off while they review it.  Why can't they

 just conduct

 their reviews and leave it run?  It seems if

 controllers are

 abusing their operational methods, those should be

 able to

 be handled without taking a system down.  I know at

 any

 regular company we'd have internal discussions, and

 then follow

 it up with new procedures, and then some

 consequences if the

 procedures weren't followed.  Working at a hospital

 I'm used to

 a constant review and refinement process.  It's just

 too

 bad that the FAA apparently can't manage itself.  I

 do hope

 they work it out before rolling it out in the lower

 48.

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 

 

 James Clark wrote:

 > Hmmmm.

 > 

 > I read the article and it ***APPEARS*** to me that

 they are saying " ... 

 > hold on a second, we have some operational issues

 with how this 

 > integrates with the controllers activities so we

 are going to tak a 

 > month or two to get it all sorted out and back

 online ..".

 > 

 > **IF** this is the case, then it may very well be

 a **GOOD THING** that 

 > they are making sure it is all sorted out before a

 big rollout. 

 > Otherwise to fix something later would be REALLY

 expensive **and** 

 > inconvenient.

 > 

 > Let's give the the chance to get it right before

 we say they have 

 > "pulled the plug".

 > 

 > My comments are not directed at anyone in

 particular ... just an 

 > alternate view.

 > 

 > 

 > James

 > 

 > 

 > On 5/11/06, *Jeffery J. Morgan*

 <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com> wrote:

 > 

 >     

 Morgan"

 >     <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>

 > 

 > 

 >     I think that it just representative of the FAA

 under there current

 >     admin

 >     and structure.  This is one of the best things

 that have come along

 >     since GPS, as far as I can see.  There

 situational awareness is huge and

 >     it is disappointing that the project has been

 put on hold, for what

 >     appears very little reason.

 > 

 >     Hopefully reason will step in and maybe AOPA

 and push a bit hard outside

 >     the FAA to push this safety info back i

 >    



"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   >     p;                      -Matt Dralle, Li>

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > -- 

 > This is an alternate email. Please continue to

 email me at 

 > james(at)nextupventures.com .

 

 

 



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