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CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

We just fitted a Smart Avionics controller with our new Woodcomp SR3000

propeller. Engine is a standard 80hp Rotax 912.



I'm a complete newbie to flying with CS propellers and trying to get my head

around the manifold pressure settings.



The display on the Smart controller can be set for either air pressure (in

of Hg) or power setting as a % so I am wondering which would be best.



While I understand what the pressure readings mean it occurs to me that % of

full power is much easier to understand. With the pressure sensor currently

fitted, the percentage power reading becomes inaccurate with altitude but as

we rarely fly above 3,000 ft I cant see this being a major issue.



Any suggestions on which would be the most useful option and why.



Thanks in advance.



Carl Pattinsoin

G-LABS



--

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

Hi! Carl

I much prefer to use the Manifold pressure settings then you will begin to

get the "feel" of "FUEL USAGE" and RPM combinations. I find that % power is

a bit of a misnomer.  Best manifold pressure for my Smart Avionics is around

27"  any more results in more fuel consumption and a labouring engine.

However my engine is a 914 so it could be a "bum steer" that I'm advising.

Mark Burton will probably better advise you since he flies (or did) using

the % setting with the smaller engine.

I used to have a battle with Jabiru since they would never provide any

power/ manifold pressure comparison graphs to give a target for RPM which

resulted in glazed bores needing to have new rings at very low Hours.



Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG  



--

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

Hi Carl

 If you look in the 

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/RotaxOperatingManual.pdf  Page 34

 it gives you the run down on suitable RPM to MAP settings for any given power output,

 Like Bob i also use MAP  instead of power,

 regards

 Ivor

 G-IVER



 On 29 May 2011 14:17, Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)>

 

Hi! Carl

I much prefer to use the Manifold pressure settings then you will begin to

get the "feel" of "FUEL USAGE" and RPM combinations. I find that % power is

a bit of a misnomer.  Best manifold pressure for my Smart Avionics is around

 27"  any more results in more fuel consumption and a labouring engine.

However my engine is a 914 so it could be a "bum steer" that I'm advising.

Mark Burton will probably better advise you since he flies (or did) using

 the % setting with the smaller engine.

I used to have a battle with Jabiru since they would never provide any

power/ manifold pressure comparison graphs to give a target for RPM which

resulted in glazed bores needing to have new rings at very low Hours.

 

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

--

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

On 05/29/2011 02:23 PM, Carl Pattinson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The display on the Smart controller can be set for either air pressure (in

 of Hg) or power setting as a % so I am wondering which would be best.


	


It can be configured as alternating, and that is what I did in the

beginning. However, I found out that the power % setting was meaningless

for me, and I was always waiting for the alternate MAP. So after a while

I configured it to display solely the MAP.

MAP is the real thing, the % power is derived from it but is inaccurate

and well, it is just a number which is pretty meaningless. MAP however

tells you, regardless of RPM, what is going on with your engine. Ok, I

have a 914, so I have additional reasons to observe MAP (it is also

showing the boost pressure). And if I want to compare performance

figures with other Europa flyers, I (and they) prefer to exchange RPM

and MAP to get comparable figures.



Just like Bob told, I too found out that 27 inch is about the sweet

point of my 914. The optimum in speed versus fuel consumption. Above

this, the fuel consumption climbs faster than the speed.



Frans

MalcolmH

Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: Re: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

Hi Carl,



I'm also considering a Woodcomp SR3000 with the Smart Avionics unit for my monowheel.



Can you let me know the specification of your prop/spinner and details of your MP transducer.



Did you purchase yours from Kevin Dilks of Special Aviation Services



Regards



Malcolm Hendra (Kit 121)

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

On 05/30/2011 03:35 PM, MalcolmH wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm also considering a Woodcomp SR3000 with the Smart Avionics unit for my monowheel.


	


If you go this route, consider buying the SR3000/W version, it has more

twist and matches better the Europa speed.

Also, you might consider to buy the 2 blade instead of the 3 blade,

because the 2 blade offers better speed and economy. You just save 50%

of leading prop edge plowing through the air. I have the 2 blade /W

version for my Rotax 914, and it offers superb performance and seems to

be a perfect match. No vibrations if you keep the carbs balanced.

I control this prop with the Smart Avionics unit which works perfectly

with this prop.



Frans

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

Malcolm, I would echo Frans' sentiments - go for the  SR 3000 W! It is a 

great blade with some 26 degrees of twist on the blade - which is ideal for 

speeds in the 100 to 160 kt range, whereas the commonly seen blades of 

Airmaster/Warp Drive, Arplast and ordinary Woodcomp props have only around 

12 degrees of twist which leads to the central portion of the prop being in 

beta mode as soon as it gets started. Changing from a Woodcomp SR2000 to an 

SR 3000W absolutely transformed my cooling (which had always been an issue) 

as well as increasing top speed and economy. Could let you have results of 

comparative trials if you are interested.

Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

---

MalcolmH

Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: Re: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

Thankyou Frans and David for your responses,



Not wishing to hi jack this thread I'll respond in the other Woodcomp 3000 thread that has just started



Regards



Malcolm Hendra (Kit 121)

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

On May 30, 2011, at 6:35 AM, MalcolmH wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm also considering a Woodcomp SR3000 with the Smart Avionics unit  

 for my monowheel.


	


This thread prompts me to give further thought about propeller  

selection...I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to lay out their  

rationale for using the Smart Avionics (generic) unit w/ the Woodcomp  

SR3000/W rather than the controller sold by Woodcomp?



w/ appreciation,



Fred

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

On 06/01/2011 08:42 AM, Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This thread prompts me to give further thought about propeller

 selection...I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to lay out their

 rationale for using the Smart Avionics (generic) unit w/ the Woodcomp

 SR3000/W rather than the controller sold by Woodcomp?


	


Woodcomp is a great propeller maker but their electronics is considered

to be less sophisticated. The Smart Avionics controller is developed by

a fellow Europa builder, has many features and configuration items, and

just makes better use of the Woodcomp propeller.

I have to admit though that I even didn't try the box that came with the

Woodcomp propeller. It is just the experience of others and going

through the list of options of the Smart controller that made me decide

to buy the Smart Avionics box..



Now we are at it, one other marvel made by Smart Avionics is their

talking airspeed indicator. Beside doing what the name suggests

(speaking out things like "130 knots", etc.), it is a good assistant

while landing. When I have established the landing speed, I click on a

button on my stick to capture that airspeed, and then the box keeps

telling me "Speed good, speed good, and if I wander off 5% in either

direction it tells me "Speed low" or "Speed high", etc. I can keep

looking outside and don't have to watch the ASI anymore.

And I have given it a dedicated pitot tube so in effect I have a totally

independent backup airspeed indicator without consuming panel space. Of

course I can control it with the very same button to shut up or tell me

what is going on. Usually I have it only on during take off to monitor

my rotating speed, and during landing it switches on by itself when it

detects my landing speed.

No I don't have shares.  But if you ask me what my two most enjoyable

pieces of avionics are they happen to have been developed by the same

fellow Europa builder.



Frans

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject: CS Prop Controller - manifold pressure.

I also have the Smart controller and talking ASI and like Frans i am totally

bowled over by how well they work, The controller can be configured exactly

 as you would like plus on first power up it give you a hobbs reading and on start up changes 

 over to Tachometer/MAP, so its a multi functioning instrument, The talking ASI also has

 a G meter to warn you of a accelerated stall, IMHO a great safety feature,

 Both Instruments are well made with excellent surport from Mark Burton and his company

 Smart avionics   

http://www.smartavionics.com/

  

 Like Frans i also don't have shares, I am just a very satisfied customer ,

  

 Ivor phillips

 G-IVER

  

 On 1 June 2011 18:28, Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)>

 

On 06/01/2011 08:42 AM, Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This thread prompts me to give further thought about propeller

 selection...I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to lay out their

 rationale for using the Smart Avionics (generic) unit w/ the Woodcomp

 > SR3000/W rather than the controller sold by Woodcomp?
	




Woodcomp is a great propeller maker but their electronics is considered

to be less sophisticated. The Smart Avionics controller is developed by

a fellow Europa builder, has many features and configuration items, and

 just makes better use of the Woodcomp propeller.

I have to admit though that I even didn't try the box that came with the

Woodcomp propeller. It is just the experience of others and going

through the list of options of the Smart controller that made me decide

 to buy the Smart Avionics box..



Now we are at it, one other marvel made by Smart Avionics is their

talking airspeed indicator. Beside doing what the name suggests

(speaking out things like "130 knots", etc.), it is a good assistant

 while landing. When I have established the landing speed, I click on a

button on my stick to capture that airspeed, and then the box keeps

telling me "Speed good, speed good, and if I wander off 5% in either

 direction it tells me "Speed low" or "Speed high", etc. I can keep

looking outside and don't have to watch the ASI anymore.

And I have given it a dedicated pitot tube so in effect I have a totally

 independent backup airspeed indicator without consuming panel space. Of

course I can control it with the very same button to shut up or tell me

what is going on. Usually I have it only on during take off to monitor

 my rotating speed, and during landing it switches on by itself when it

detects my landing speed.

No I don't have shares.  But if you ask me what my two most enjoyable

pieces of avionics are they happen to have been developed by the same

 ties such as List Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



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