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Power Stabelizer

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dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: Power Stabelizer

I was curious if anyone has had any experience with these units? Their purpose is to allow the glass panels to be turned on prior to and during engine start dampening a power spike or surge. If I remember right in Bob's book, he indicates this usually should not be a concern. What is the concensus? Thanks,

Dan B

http://www.tcwtech.com/IPS-12v.htm

stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

G'day Dan,



I like it a lot and bought one for additional avionics protection, but then

switched to the Independent Battery Backup System (IBBS) instead.  I'm no

authority on this, but I believe that the inherent protection devices in

avionics will supress most volate spikes/current surges, but the cumulative

effect of even small spikes/surges can reduce the performance of the

equipment and eventually lead to early retirement. The IBBS (4Ah NiMH with

built-in charging) - achieves the same function and supplies backup power as

well, for a small weight penalty.



Kind regards, Stu



F1 Rocket    VH-FLY       http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY

www.teamrocketaircraft.com



--

stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

Sorry, I meant "voltage" spikes ... dislexia kicking in.



--

iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

The first key may be to follow the money. In this case the "patented technology in the IPS system" is money. All patents are money. 



It is unlikely that tcwtech.com is contributing a unique solution to a previously undiscovered electrical condition that has not been already considered. 



 

Alvin Voigt, Ashford, WA – PDT iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com (iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com)

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

One of the reasons for asking the question Alvin...thanks for your input. The thing that got me thinking about it was a post on another site indicating how they would not be without a protection device like the IPS. I know discussions about these systems have been briefly hashed here (reading the archives), however, the question is still lingering in my brain cell. I have no doubt or argument that these "stabelizer" systems are probably a great add-on...if not for anything else the battery backup one gains. My quest is to decide if this type of system is NEEDED for the spike/surge aspects as advertized.  I know, I know...that is like asking about the noise if a tree falls in the woods with no one to hear it. Has anyone tried sneeking into the woods unseen? It is my understanding that many of the schematics most of us here have  followed to wire our ships address these spikey issues (thinking fuses, diodes, crow-bars, etc). To go one step more, do not each one of the glass instrument manufactuers have internal (or external) protections built in? Feel free to PM me if you would rather not voice publicly.

  

 Thanks,

 Dan B

  

--- On Tue, 5/31/11, Alvin Voigt <iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Alvin Voigt <iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Power Stabelizer

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2011, 8:36 AM



   The first key may be to follow the money. In this case the "patented technology in the IPS system" is money. All patents are money. 



It is unlikely that tcwtech.com is contributing a unique solution to a previously undiscovered electrical condition that has not been already considered. 



  

Alvin Voigt, Ashford, WA â€“ PDT iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com (iamgodlisten(at)hotmail.com)



 	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	
 [quote][b]

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1925
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Power Stabelizer

 	  Quote: 	
		  It is acceptable to have the FlightDEK-D180 turned on during engine start. 	


Above is a quote from page 2-1 of the Dynon FlightDEK-D180 Pilotâ€™s User Guide.

At least one manufacturer agrees with Bob N and is not concerned with old wives' tales.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

I was just going to let this forum play out the Q & A  regarding our products on its own.  But I cannot let unsupported comments  just linger.

  

 The TCW power stabilizer does resolve a real issue  and is, as far as we know, a unique solution to a real problem.   The  IPS series of products take input bus voltages from 5-15 volt and ensure that  the output is at least 12 volts. The IPS system is DC:DC power converter  and is rated to run at its name plate conditions all day long.      Many electronics systems including EFIS and engine monitors do not work  well or at all when the bus voltage falls below 9-10 volts.   When you  crank the engine in your plane it is likely that the battery terminal voltage  will fall to 6-7 volts.   If you were interested in having these types  of equipment up during engine cranking you will need to do something about this  condition.    Using alternate batteries is a perfectly viable  solution,  however all batteries are a maintenance issue and they weigh  quite a bit more than our IPS products.    You will find in  the Garmin install manual for their G-900x and G3x series of avionics that the  TCW IPS system is shown in the wiring diagrams as a method of resolving this  problem with low voltage conditions.

  

  Yes it is true we did receive a patent for  technology(7,868,478)  it covers some of the specific workings of our  product and we believe it protects some of the very nice electrical behavior we  have worked into the design.   No we did not invent the DC:DC  converter,  we did however make improvements upon it that make it very  well suited for the engine starting application I described  above.    In doing so I believe we have made a contribution to  resolve a real problem and that the solution was unique.

  

 We are very proud of our products,  we have invented  them, we designed them, we patented them, and we manufacture them in the  USA.    We deliver value to our customers and are glad to discuss  their real benefits and technical merits at any time.

  

  

 Sincerely,

  

 Bob Newman,  owner

 TCW Technologies, LLC.

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: Power Stabelizer

At 08:49 AM 5/31/2011, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm no authority on this, but I believe that the inherent protection 

devices in

avionics will supress most volate spikes/current surges, but the cumulative

effect of even small spikes/surges can reduce the performance of the

equipment and eventually lead to early retirement.


	


    Not true.  Spikes and Surges is non-quantified. The bus

    voltage of any DC vehicle is all over the place as a matter

    of normal operations. It can drop to 6v for milliseconds

    during starter motor inrush events but that event is not

    hazardous to any piece of electronics. It might trigger

    some form of reset activity in systems where the designers

    did not anticipate this routine, once-per-flight-cycle event

    that occurs in the airplane's parking spot.



    It's a certainty that this product performs as advertised.

    The question to be asked and answered is what is the $return$

    on investment for having added the feature. I know of no

    such devices on any TC aircraft. Modern avionics have their

    own, wide-range input DC-DC converters built in. I'm aware of

    no avionics installations suggesting "power smoothing" to

    improve behavior for brown out effects or as a hedge against

    premature failure.



    To accomplish meaningful evaluation of goodness, "spikes" and

    "surges" should be quantified as to amplitude, waveshape and

    frequency. It seems likely that a detailed report of such

    forces would also reveal the systems that are likely to generate

    the antagonistic effects. Once the antagonists are accurately

    described, only then can one deduce whether a panel mounted

    product crafted to DO-160 design goals would benefit from additional

    protection from those antagonists.



    One might think that the starter motor is the greatest

    probably for generating a perturbance on the bus . . . and they'd

    be right. I've documented starter-engage battery-voltage sags on

    everything from my wife's SL-1 Saturn to C-150 to Beechjets. They all

    do it. It lasts but a few milliseconds. No other noteworthy

    disturbances have been noted. I've not encountered a system

    designed for installation on a DC powered vehicle where the

    manufacture said that his product would benefit from glass-smooth

    power.



    I've designed dozens of devices and evaluated hundreds more

    where we simply hook the critter to the bus . . . what ever

    you or your airplane throws at it is of no particular

    concern with the exception of gross over-voltage. That why

    we DO have ov protection on engine driven power generators.

   Bob . . .

stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

Thanks Bob,



I like the idea that my EFIS won't reboot during engine start - cos I want

to see the oil pressure right about then.



Either way, I'm a newbie to this forum and feel very fortunate to have such

experienced and articulate guys to help numpties like me steer a true

course.



I assume then that OV is the reason confusers (computers) are susceptible to

lightning activity without a 'surge' protector?



Kind regards, Stu



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: Power Stabelizer

At 04:08 AM 6/1/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au>

Thanks Bob,



I like the idea that my EFIS won't reboot during engine start - cos I want

to see the oil pressure right about then.


	


   Do you KNOW that it will?  There are thousands of discussions

   based on the "possibility" of a system rebooting based on

   the experiences and perhaps third-hand observations of others.



   A lot of band-aids have been pasted onto OBAM aircraft in

   response to a worry for experiencing some condition that

   is not well identified or explained. It may be that the

   rumor started simply because some pilot was pushing his

   battery too far past it's service life . . . or perhaps

   it was too small.  A battery that gets replaced when the

   capacity drops below battery only design goals is still

   quite capable of starting the engine. But a battery with

   no endurance goals (like in Z-13/ may get so soggy that

   some systems start complain about bus voltage depression during

   starter engagement.  This might well be the pre-flight

   warning that says it's time to replace the battery.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Either way, I'm a newbie to this forum and feel very fortunate to have such

experienced and articulate guys to help numpties like me steer a true

course.


	


   Can't do that . . . we know nothing about the specifics

   of your airplane's configuration nor your personal philosophy

   for operating and maintaining it. What we can do is help

   you sort through much common knowledge or public consensus

   that is mere floobydust.



   We can suggest that you add no prophylactic feature

   until you know you need it. If you're duplicating a

   configuration that is demonstrated to benefit from some

   add-on accessory, fine. But the four-color brochures

   and worry-hype that promotes many products may have

   no foundation in reality for how your airplane is

   going together.



   Finally, what we can do is offer tools for deducing

   the root cause of an observed problem and either

   eliminating that cause by design or masking it with

   some add-on accessory.



   Short answer: don't buy anything that you don't find

   on a C-150 or hundreds of RV's already flying until

   you KNOW you need it.

 	  Quote: 	
		  I assume then that OV is the reason confusers (computers) are susceptible to

lightning activity without a 'surge' protector?


	


   As others have pointed out, that's a whole different

   world than the DC power system for your air vehicle . . .

   or car. But in that world too, purchasing additional 'surge

   protection' is more worry-hype than useful protection.



   People who build devices that plug into walls KNOW

   much about the hazards associated with that source.

   The so-called 'surge protection' offered by Office-

   Max add-ons are metal oxide varistors, the same

   20 cent devices ALREADY installed in the power

   supply for your computer . . . the same devices

   that will become toast if the line behind your

   house takes a direct strike.

   Bob . . .

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