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Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

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Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:36 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Mike,

  

  http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_7/6.html

  

   Here is the LED sequencer part of the circuit.  It a fairly straight-forward

 circuit.  I simply tied the LED sequencer's input to the Alarm Circuit's

 LED, so that they both receive power upon activation.

   When the alarm signal is activated, the LED on the alarm circuitboard

 lights up nice and bright, and the sequencer starts strobing the line of

 LEDs on my panel.  VERY attention getting for an AOA alarm!!

  

   Like I said, on the kitchen table and hooked up to the 12 volt transformer,

 everything works like a champ!!  If I apply a power signal (with BOTH of 

 them unhooked)  to either the green wire(the test leg), OR the light blue 

 wire (the Dynon alarm wire),  either one of them activate the whole circuit 

 of sequencing LEDs.

  

 Mike Welch

  

  

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

mikerv6a(at)ao-cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Hi Mike



Look at the LM555 data on the National Semiconductor

website: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM555.pdf

The astable (free-running) oscillator connections

are shown at lower right of page 7. Note that your

circuit lacks RB between pins 6 and 7 of the '555.

The effect of this is that the discharge time is

very short. Sometimes the use of zero resistance

for RB doesn't work reliably. Add a resistor that's

large enough to make the discharge time at least

10 microseconds.



Also, the capacitor at pin 5 that's shown in the

datasheet is missing from your circuit. This capacitor

can reduce noise susceptibility of the '555.



Regarding the burned-out 10K resistor, I suppose

that it could have been a defective part that was

prone to early failure. This is a very rare event in

these kinds of components.



Mike Linse

RV-6A builder

Corvallis, OR



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike,



  http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_7/6.html



   Here is the LED sequencer part of the circuit.  It a fairly

 straight-forward

 circuit.  I simply tied the LED sequencer's input to the Alarm Circuit's

 LED, so that they both receive power upon activation.

   When the alarm signal is activated, the LED on the alarm circuitboard

 lights up nice and bright, and the sequencer starts strobing the line of

 LEDs on my panel.  VERY attention getting for an AOA alarm!!



   Like I said, on the kitchen table and hooked up to the 12 volt

 transformer,

 everything works like a champ!!  If I apply a power signal (with BOTH of

 them unhooked)  to either the green wire(the test leg), OR the light blue

 wire (the Dynon alarm wire),  either one of them activate the whole

 circuit

 of sequencing LEDs.



 Mike Welch

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Hi Mike,

  

   Thanks for the time you're putting in for my problem.  I do agree the components you 

 mentioned appear to be missing.

  

   Although it IS a lot of work, I think I'll rebuild the whole thing, and make those changes.

 This isn't something that I want to be tempermental.

  

   Can anyone answer if lower the resistances on those 10K's in the Alarm Design circuit

 would help, and if so, which ones??

  

 Mike Welch

  

 

 

 > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:23:59 -0700

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: mikerv6a(at)ao-cs.com

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

 

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "MikeRV6-A" <mikerv6a(at)ao-cs.com>

 

 Hi Mike

 

 Look at the LM555 data on the National Semiconductor

 website: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM555.pdf

 The astable (free-running) oscillator connections

 are shown at lower right of page 7. Note that your

 circuit lacks RB between pins 6 and 7 of the '555.

 The effect of this is that the discharge time is

 very short. Sometimes the use of zero resistance

 for RB doesn't work reliably. Add a resistor that's

 large enough to make the discharge time at least

 10 microseconds.

 

 Also, the capacitor at pin 5 that's shown in the

 datasheet is missing from your circuit. This capacitor

 can reduce noise susceptibility of the '555.

 

 Regarding the burned-out 10K resistor, I suppose

 that it could have been a defective part that was

 prone to early failure. This is a very rare event in

 these kinds of components.

 

 Mike Linse

 RV-6A builder

 Corvallis, OR

 

 >

 > Mike,

 >

 > http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_7/6.html

 >

 > Here is the LED sequencer part of the circuit. It a fairly

 > straight-forward

 > circuit. I simply tied the LED sequencer's input to the Alarm Circuit's

 > LED, so that they both receive power upon activation.

 > When the alarm signal is activated, the LED on the alarm circuitboard

 > lights up nice and bright, and the sequencer starts strobing the line of

 > LEDs on my panel. VERY attention getting for an AOA alarm!!

 >

 > Like I said, on the kitchen table and hooked up to the 12 volt

 > transformer,

 > everything works like a champ!! If I apply a power signal (with BOTH of

 > them unhooked) to either the green wire(the test leg), OR the light blue

 > wire (the Dynon alarm wire), either one of them activate the whole

 > circuit

 > of sequencing LEDs.

 >

 > Mike Welch

 >

 >

 

 

 

&g=======================
	


&g============

[quote] 

 

 

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Vern & Mike L,

  

   Rather than rebuild the whole thing, I went ahead and made the

 changes you guys suggested.  I replaced those two 10K resistors 

 in the alarm circuit with two 4.7K's.  These were the resistors that

 went to each leg of the activation leads.  I didn't replace any of the

 10Ks in any of the rest of the alarm circuit.

   Next, I added a 22K resistor, rather than the straight wire that 

 was there, between pins 6&7 on the 555.  I didn't add the capacitor

 that you referred to, Mike, that went from pin 6 to ground , on the 555.

 I figured if it didn't act right, I'd try it.  Besides, I didn't have a value,

 so I didn't know what size would work the best.

  

   The results:  On the table, it works perfect, just like before!!  Now, 

 for the test that really matters.....the plane.  I dropped it in place, 

 hooked up the LEDs, and the +12 & neg leads.  Then I ran a jumper 

 wire from the instrument bus to the light blue wire.  Works perfect!!  

 So far, so good!!

   Now, for the hurdle I couldn't seem to get over!!  Unhooked the light 

 blue wire, and hooked up the green.....IT WORKS!!!  Progress finally!!

   Now, for the final test.....the joystick button.  Plugged it in, pushed it,

 and voila'!!  Works like a champ!!

  

   I can now say that everything functions as it should!!   I really 

 appreciate your help and pointers, Mike and Vern.  Thanks a million!!

  

   Now, I can start the final stages of the plane construction.

  

 Mike Welch

  

  

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Now, for the final test.....the joystick button.  Plugged it in, pushed it,

 and voila'!!  Works like a champ!!

  

   I can now say that everything functions as it should!!   I really 

 appreciate your help and pointers, Mike and Vern.  Thanks a million!!

  

   Now, I can start the final stages of the plane construction.



    Good work guys.



   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse.   The 10Kâ€™s should have worked, but the 4.7Kâ€™s may be enough current to forward  bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904.  The band on  the diode should connect to the transistor.

  

 V

    

  From: Mike Welch (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:44 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: RE: Dynon alarm--LED part of the  circuit

  



 Vern & Mike  L,

 

  Rather than rebuild the whole thing, I went ahead and made  the

changes you guys suggested.  I replaced  those two 10K resistors 

in the alarm circuit with  two 4.7K's.  These were the resistors that

went to each leg of the activation leads.  I didn't replace  any of the

10Ks in any of  the rest of the alarm circuit.

  Next, I added  a 22K resistor, rather than the straight wire that 

was there, between pins 6&7 on the 555.  I didn't add the  capacitor

that you referred to, Mike, that went  from pin 6 to ground , on the 555.

I figured if it  didn't act right, I'd try it.  Besides, I didn't have a  value,

so I didn't know what size would work the  best.

 

   The results:  On the table, it works perfect, just like before!!  Now,  

for the test that really matters.....the  plane.  I dropped it in place, 

hooked up the  LEDs, and the +12 & neg leads.  Then I ran a  jumper 

wire from the instrument bus to the light blue wire.  Works perfect!!   

So far, so good!!

  Now, for the hurdle I couldn't seem to get over!!   Unhooked the light 

blue wire, and hooked up the  green.....IT WORKS!!!  Progress finally!!

  Now, for the final test.....the joystick button.   Plugged it in, pushed it,

and voila'!!  Works  like a champ!!

 

  I can now say that everything functions as it  should!!   I really 

appreciate your help  and pointers, Mike and Vern.  Thanks a million!!

 

  Now, I can start the  final stages of the plane construction.

 

Mike Welch

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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   [quote][b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Hi Vern,

  

   I think I verified that it was correct, when I was replacing those resisotrs....but I will 

 double-check, and get back to you.

  

 Thanks,  Mike W

 

   From: sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 17:08:02 -0700



   .ExternalClass .ecx.hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}      I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse.  The 10K’s should have worked, but the 4.7K’s may be enough current to forward bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904.  The band on the diode should connect to the transistor.

  

 V

    

  From: Mike Welch (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:44 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

  



 Vern & Mike L,

 

  Rather than rebuild the whole thing, I went ahead and made the

changes you guys suggested.  I replaced those two 10K resistors 

in the alarm circuit with two 4.7K's.  These were the resistors that

went to each leg of the activation leads.  I didn't replace any of the

10Ks in any of the rest of the alarm circuit.

  Next, I added a 22K resistor, rather than the straight wire that 

was there, between pins 6&7 on the 555.  I didn't add the capacitor

that you referred to, Mike, that went from pin 6 to ground , on the 555.

I figured if it didn't act right, I'd try it.  Besides, I didn't have a value,

so I didn't know what size would work the best.

 

  The results:  On the table, it works perfect, just like before!!  Now, 

for the test that really matters.....the plane.  I dropped it in place, 

hooked up the LEDs, and the +12 & neg leads.  Then I ran a jumper 

wire from the instrument bus to the light blue wire.  Works perfect!!  

So far, so good!!

  Now, for the hurdle I couldn't seem to get over!!  Unhooked the light 

blue wire, and hooked up the green.....IT WORKS!!!  Progress finally!!

  Now, for the final test.....the joystick button.  Plugged it in, pushed it,

and voila'!!  Works like a champ!!

 

  I can now say that everything functions as it should!!   I really 

appreciate your help and pointers, Mike and Vern.  Thanks a million!!

 

  Now, I can start the final stages of the plane construction.

 

Mike Welch

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
   

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[quote]



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ttp://forums.matronics.com

=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Vern,

  

   I just check for the orientation of the 1N4148.  Yes, it is correct.  The 'band' end

 of the diode is sharing the 2N3904 base node (the center leg of the 3904).  I turned 

 the ignition on and did another joystick button check....still working great.  By all 

 accounts, and from what I can tell, everything appears to be operating very well now.

  

   I have a question for Bob Nuchols,

  

 Bob, Does it hurt the circuitry by changing just those two resistors from 10K to 4.7K?

 These were the ones that went to the Dynon alarm signal wire, and the test PTT

 switch.

   Maybe I exceeded the original design abilities of the 10K's (current requirements)

 by adding in that 555/4017 cascading LED circuit.  All I know at this point is it sure 

 likes the 4.7K's!

  

   Will there be any deleterious consequences by not changing any of the other 

 resistors in the Dynon Alarm circuit? Or, can I call it good?



 Thanks for all your help, guys.

  

 Mike Welch 

   From: sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 17:08:02 -0700



   .ExternalClass .ecx.hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}      I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse.  The 10K’s should have worked, but the 4.7K’s may be enough current to forward bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904.  The band on the diode should connect to the transistor.

  

 V

    

  

 





 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

Bob N,

  

   My apologies for the mispelling of your name.  Nuckolls, not Nuchols.

 

Mike 

 [quote] [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

At 12:44 PM 6/3/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob N,



   My apologies for the mispelling of your name.  Nuckolls, not Nuchols.


	


    No problem, I've answered to all the above for decades.

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit

 	  Quote: 	
		  

   I have a question for Bob Nuchols,



Bob, Does it hurt the circuitry by changing just those two resistors 

from 10K to 4.7K?

These were the ones that went to the Dynon alarm signal wire, and the test PTT

switch.

   Maybe I exceeded the original design abilities of the 10K's 

 (current requirements)

by adding in that 555/4017 cascading LED circuit.  All I know at 

this point is it sure

likes the 4.7K's!


	


    No, not at all. Those values were a WAG based on

    best judgement at the time for minimizing loads

    on the circuit being monitored . . . but always

    subject to tweaking based on observed behaviors.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

   Will there be any deleterious consequences by not changing any of 

 the other

resistors in the Dynon Alarm circuit? Or, can I call it good?


	


    Probably not . . .within limits. For example, if

    you had to reduce a 1000 ohm resistor down to 100

    ohms to get something to work, the 10:1 'miss' on

    the WAG may point to fundamental mis-understandings of

    how things are working . . . or not working.



    There's some level of risk for doing design,

    development and production by remote control.

    Not having it all spread out on the bench where

    you can poke, measure, observe and then validate

    or modify a circuit has some risks associated

    with it. Risks that you've suffered.



    Fortunately, there's little or no risk for

    what you're doing beyond failure to function. The

    power levels your dealing with are not going

    to set things on fire.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for all your help, guys.


	


    I was interesting in watching the exercise

    play out . . . and it MIGHT not be over yet.

    But much has been discovered so far. Y'all done

    good.

   Bob . . .

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