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redrocketrider

Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: Speed

Hi kitfox aviators ! Doing a  extensive annual and wheel change and looking to possibly install a set of wheel  pants that we now have. These puppies' are really of rather dubious size and  shape. All you speedster guys, did you see any difference in speed with the  wheel pants off and then installed ? thanks for your opinions. Bob and  Toodie    4/1200

   [quote][b]

_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: Speed

On 6/3/2011 7:05 AM, rtmarshall wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  These puppies' are really of rather dubious size and shape. All you speedster guys, did you see any difference in speed with the wheel pants off and then installed ? 	
 

 I'm not a Speedster guy, but my plane slows down about 5 when I put on the wheel pants. Of course, they were made for a DC-3, but they look COOL. (See photo.)

 

 Guy Buchanan

 Ramona, CA

 Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

redrocketrider

Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: Speed

[quote]      Guy, As you say they are very cool, and that was what I    suspected but wanted to hear it from a flyer. You have a great looking ship.    Thanks for the info. Toodie and Bob

   From: Guy Buchanan (gebuchanan(at)cox.net) 

   Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 10:00 AM

   To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Subject: Re: Speed

On 6/3/2011 7:05 AM, rtmarshall wrote:     	  Quote: 	
		  These puppies' are      really of rather dubious size and shape. All you speedster guys, did you see      any difference in speed with the wheel pants off and then installed      ? 	

I'm not a Speedster guy, but my plane slows down    about 5 when I put on the wheel pants. Of course, they were made for a DC-3,    but they look COOL. (See photo.)

Guy Buchanan

Ramona, CA

Kitfox    IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and  grounded

[b]

_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: Speed

Lookin Good!

     

     Pete

     Leander, TX

     Kitfox III, 912, Grove

     

     On 6/3/2011 12:00 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:     [quote]                     On 6/3/2011 7:05 AM, rtmarshall wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		  These           puppies'           are really of rather dubious size and shape. All you speedster           guys,           did you see any difference in speed with the wheel pants off           and then           installed ? 	
       

       I'm not a Speedster guy, but my plane slows down about 5 when I       put on       the wheel pants. Of course, they were made for a DC-3, but they       look       COOL. (See photo.)

       

       Guy Buchanan

       Ramona, CA

       Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

       

       

     [b]

cliffh(at)outdrs.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: Speed

I had wheele pants on my speedster but I took them  off.

 In my 58 years of flying, I have seen two airplanes  laying on their backs because of wheel pants.

 They took off with sleet on the runway and it froze  while they were in the air. When they landed the wheels were frozen in the wheel  pants and would not turn. It caused the airplanes to roll over on their  backs.

  

 Floran Higgins 

 Helena, Mt.

 Speedster

 912 ULS

 [quote]   ---

VIXEN

Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 35

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: Speed

Hi Guys



I have a Model 5 long wing Vixen with 912UL. I have flown it for 100 hours always with wheel pants (spats, in some countries) and have had no issues. Always on pavement though. It cruises at 117 to 120 IAS. Maybe I will take them off and see what happens. I always thought they were supposed to "improve" speed.

 

Don



On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 7:12 PM, floran higgins <cliffh(at)outdrs.net (cliffh(at)outdrs.net)> wrote:

[quote]        I had wheele pants on my speedster but I took them  off.

 In my 58 years of flying, I have seen two airplanes  laying on their backs because of wheel pants.

 They took off with sleet on the runway and it froze  while they were in the air. When they landed the wheels were frozen in the wheel  pants and would not turn. It caused the airplanes to roll over on their  backs.

  

 Floran Higgins 

 Helena, Mt.

 Speedster

 912 ULS

 [quote]   ---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: Speed

On 6/3/2011 7:53 PM, Don Hudgeon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Maybe I will take them off and see what happens. I always thought they 

 were supposed to "improve" speed.


	


Well, it certainly depends on the pants. Modern laminar flow pants only 

marginally bigger than the wheels will dramatically reduce drag. Pants 

like mine that are turbulent flow and four times the cross sectional 

area of the tire don't reduce drag. (Especially with 1/2 the wheel 

sticking out anyway!)



Guy Buchanan

Ramona, CA

Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: Speed

Mine must have been a better fit because when I installed the main 

gear pants on my Model IV-1200 Nose-wheeled Speedster (shown here 

without the nose wheel pant installed), I picked up something in the 

neighborhood of 5-7 knots at cruise power.

Mike G.

Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

Phoenix, AZ

 	  Quote: 	

On 6/3/2011 7:53 PM, Don Hudgeon wrote:

>Maybe I will take them off and see what happens. I always thought 

>they were supposed to "improve" speed.

Well, it certainly depends on the pants. Modern laminar flow pants 

only marginally bigger than the wheels will dramatically reduce 

drag. Pants like mine that are turbulent flow and four times the 

cross sectional area of the tire don't reduce drag. (Especially with 

1/2 the wheel sticking out anyway!)

-- 

"My airplane is quiet, and for a moment still an alien, still a 

stranger to the ground, I am home."

   --Richard Bach

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ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Speed

Wheel pants look very nice and work well if you have a speedy airplane. You will gain no utility with wheel pants on a bush that I can think of. By putting them on you will loose a nice  place to sit, stand or put your foot on for what ever reason.  If you are on rough ground they will shake and rattle around, not good on a bush plane.  

Of course if we all thought alike it wold be a very boring world.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: Speed

On Mon, June 6, 2011 9:54 am, ronlee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Wheel pants look very nice and work well if you have a speedy airplane. You will gain

 no utility with wheel pants on a bush that I can think of. By putting them on you will

 loose a nice  place to sit, stand or put your foot on for what ever reason.  If you

 are on rough ground they will shake and rattle around, not good on a bush plane.

 Of course if we all thought alike it wold be a very boring world.


	


I have seen an alternative to complete wheel coverage over the top and that is just a

smaller trailing tailcone. I think something like this would allow you to use the tire

as a step and have most if not all of the streamlining gains of full pants. Having

nothing out in front of the tire would eliminate problems of hitting vegetation and

riverbank rocks. When the airplane tail tailwheel on the ground, there still wouldn't

be much ground clearance though.



-- 

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

PAF Consulting Engineers

Office 425.440.9505

Cell 425.241.1618

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Speed

Ten years ago I installed wheel pants on my S5 and noticed an immediate speed improvement.  Not a lot, but 3-5 mph at cruise which adds up and saves fuel.  I have a farm strip that can be wet and somewhat muddy in the spring time which makes a mess of the airplane, thus the main reason I installed them.  No more mess.  I leave them on now year around.  I don't fly in the winter time so snow and ice is not an issue.

Deke

NE Michigan

S5/Soob/465TT



[quote="redrocketrider"]Hi kitfox aviators ! Doing a  extensive annual and wheel change and looking to possibly install a set of wheel  pants that we now have. These puppies' are really of rather dubious size and  shape. All you speedster guys, did you see any difference in speed with the  wheel pants off and then installed ? thanks for your opinions. Bob and  Toodie    4/1200

    	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

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Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Speed...Hey Gibbs!

Hey Gibbs!

IS that craft of yours 912 powered?...if so..where did you get that cowl?..looks real nice. I am not far from replacing my mkIV speedster cowl..and would like to have something easier to see around.

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

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