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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Dan Lloyd is the subject of the Aftermath column in this months issue of Flying Magazine.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

Do Not Archive



Sent from my iPad

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Anyone have a PDF of the article that can be shared privately?



Thanks,



bob



--

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

I'd like to see it too!



Do not archive



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:06 AM, "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Anyone have a PDF of the article that can be shared privately?

 

 Thanks,

 

 bob

 

 --

billz

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Clinton, New York

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Here's the article from Flying Magazine. Looks like he was "an accident looking for a place to happen". Too bad!

RV-10 Accident 2.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

RV-10 Accident 2.pdf

Filesize:

2.31 MB

Downloaded:

1094 Time(s)

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Another builder tipped me off last night that this article

was in Flying Mag.  (Flying mag is my favorite Av. mag,

or at least has been, due to some of their writers).

After reading it, I really thought Peter Garrison did an

excellent job of telling the story.  I wasn't contacted

by anyone regarding the article, but I think they did

a great job of pulling the stuff together and putting

the right personal touch to it.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 7/1/2011 8:45 AM, billz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Here's the article from Flying Magazine.  Looks like he was "an accident looking for a place to happen".  Too bad!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344568#344568





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_accident_2_585.pdf

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Yes, I thought he did a good job too even though I'm not intimate with 

the facts.



I've been reading Flying since the 60s and have always enjoyed the 

various writer who have come and gone.  It looks like it will survive 

the latest editorial staff changes (ownership too?) thought the my jury 

is still out.  I miss Collins and Mac.



I say all that because while I've never liked Garrison in the accident 

reporting role over the years, he is a scratch builder (Melmoth 1 & 2)  

and the first homebuilder I ever knew of.  He should be the right guy 

for this story and he was.



http://www.melmoth2.com/texts/Bio.htm



Bill Watson



On 7/1/2011 10:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Another builder tipped me off last night that this article

 was in Flying Mag.  (Flying mag is my favorite Av. mag,

 or at least has been, due to some of their writers).

 After reading it, I really thought Peter Garrison did an

 excellent job of telling the story.  I wasn't contacted

 by anyone regarding the article, but I think they did

 a great job of pulling the stuff together and putting

 the right personal touch to it.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 On 7/1/2011 8:45 AM, billz wrote:

> 

>

> Here's the article from Flying Magazine.  Looks like he was "an 

> accident looking for a place to happen".  Too bad!

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344568#344568

>

>

> Attachments:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_accident_2_585.pdf

>

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Tim ought to get a royalty out of it.  It did provide some insight that I previously didn't know, but that article was still at least 95% of what Tim wrote 4 years ago.  And for those for whom this is new, Tim is the unnamed friend in the article who implored Dan to slow down and learn his avionics (Cheltons in this case) to no avail.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Peter Garrison is my across the hangar row neighbor at our LA airport.

Really quite amazing what he has accomplished with his homebuilt(s).



Robin

Do Not Archive



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Yeah, my only gripe about flying mag is really that I can't download

a .pdf of it with my standard subscription, or in place of a

standard subscription. I like to save my magazines, but don't have

the space to store paper copies.  All my other subs almost are all

.pdf now, so it's handy.



I like reading most of their writers, and just love Martha Lunken,

and I get a kick out of Dick Karl being such a kid about loving

these toys.  I do miss Collins and Mac, but, that's kind of a

complaint about Mac.....That's fine that he left if he wanted

to, but whereas Garrison is great in that he's a homebuilder

and has lots of aerodynamic education, Mac is now working the

EAA circuit and I don't think he much belongs there.  He doesn't

fly homebuilts, didn't write much about them, probably doesn't

care much about them.



This story though on the Dan Lloyd accident was a good one.

We've told the tale a bunch of times, and sorted out what

we knew, but this put a more personal spin on it.  He's

a great writer for that one, as you noted.



These days, I'd have to say Martha Lunken is my favorite

though...that lady cracks me up.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 7/1/2011 12:47 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yes, I thought he did a good job too even though I'm not intimate with

 the facts.



 I've been reading Flying since the 60s and have always enjoyed the

 various writer who have come and gone. It looks like it will survive the

 latest editorial staff changes (ownership too?) thought the my jury is

 still out. I miss Collins and Mac.



 I say all that because while I've never liked Garrison in the accident

 reporting role over the years, he is a scratch builder (Melmoth 1 & 2)

 and the first homebuilder I ever knew of. He should be the right guy for

 this story and he was.



 http://www.melmoth2.com/texts/Bio.htm



 Bill Watson



 On 7/1/2011 10:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

> 

>

> Another builder tipped me off last night that this article

> was in Flying Mag. (Flying mag is my favorite Av. mag,

> or at least has been, due to some of their writers).

> After reading it, I really thought Peter Garrison did an

> excellent job of telling the story. I wasn't contacted

> by anyone regarding the article, but I think they did

> a great job of pulling the stuff together and putting

> the right personal touch to it.

>

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

> do not archive

> On 7/1/2011 8:45 AM, billz wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Here's the article from Flying Magazine. Looks like he was "an

>> accident looking for a place to happen". Too bad!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Read this topic online here:

>>

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344568#344568

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Attachments:

>>

>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_accident_2_585.pdf

>>

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Not that any comparison can or should be made but Lunken has somehow 

filled 'ol Bax's shoes.  She's a delight.



do not archive



On 7/1/2011 2:29 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yeah, my only gripe about flying mag is really that I can't download

 a .pdf of it with my standard subscription, or in place of a

 standard subscription. I like to save my magazines, but don't have

 the space to store paper copies.  All my other subs almost are all

 .pdf now, so it's handy.



 I like reading most of their writers, and just love Martha Lunken,

 and I get a kick out of Dick Karl being such a kid about loving

 these toys.  I do miss Collins and Mac, but, that's kind of a

 complaint about Mac.....That's fine that he left if he wanted

 to, but whereas Garrison is great in that he's a homebuilder

 and has lots of aerodynamic education, Mac is now working the

 EAA circuit and I don't think he much belongs there.  He doesn't

 fly homebuilts, didn't write much about them, probably doesn't

 care much about them.



 This story though on the Dan Lloyd accident was a good one.

 We've told the tale a bunch of times, and sorted out what

 we knew, but this put a more personal spin on it.  He's

 a great writer for that one, as you noted.



 These days, I'd have to say Martha Lunken is my favorite

 though...that lady cracks me up.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 On 7/1/2011 12:47 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

> 

>

> Yes, I thought he did a good job too even though I'm not intimate with

> the facts.

>

> I've been reading Flying since the 60s and have always enjoyed the

> various writer who have come and gone. It looks like it will survive the

> latest editorial staff changes (ownership too?) thought the my jury is

> still out. I miss Collins and Mac.

>

> I say all that because while I've never liked Garrison in the accident

> reporting role over the years, he is a scratch builder (Melmoth 1 & 2)

> and the first homebuilder I ever knew of. He should be the right guy for

> this story and he was.

>

> http://www.melmoth2.com/texts/Bio.htm

>

> Bill Watson

>

> On 7/1/2011 10:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Another builder tipped me off last night that this article

>> was in Flying Mag. (Flying mag is my favorite Av. mag,

>> or at least has been, due to some of their writers).

>> After reading it, I really thought Peter Garrison did an

>> excellent job of telling the story. I wasn't contacted

>> by anyone regarding the article, but I think they did

>> a great job of pulling the stuff together and putting

>> the right personal touch to it.

>>

>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

>> do not archive

>>

>>

>> On 7/1/2011 8:45 AM, billz wrote:

>>> 

>>>

>>> Here's the article from Flying Magazine. Looks like he was "an

>>> accident looking for a place to happen". Too bad!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>

>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344568#344568

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Attachments:

>>>

>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_accident_2_585.pdf

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

The one I miss is Lane Wallace, I found her writing always hit a spot with

me.  Lunken is number two......wish all FFA people were like her.



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080

--

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only who feels Mac is not a good fit with EAA.  His articles and blog seem geared more towards the certified crowd as if he had never left Flying.  I mean his latest blog is about the lack of maintenance rules for owners.  Really?  Maybe we can make a trade--

Mac for Peter G.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

My only complaint about this article is that it gives the uninformed the impression that if the engine quits, you must die.



Ultimately, the PIC died because he either was incapable of, or, more likely, refused to accept, landing in a corn field.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

cjay

Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 53

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Bob,



For those of us not familiar with the story, can you enlighten us about the avoiding landing in the corn field?



cjay

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

My understanding is that the engine quit while over a corn field.  It appears he tried to stretch the glide to a nearby road? At any rate, the aircraft impacted a perfectly good field nose-first. Certainly appears to be an unintentional stall at too low an altitude to recover.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

I joined the community right before this tragic accident. 



Rightly or wrongly, my impression after reading the article is to place more blame on the engine packager than I previously felt.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

On 7/3/2011 1:47 AM, woxofswa wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I joined the community right before this tragic accident.



 Rightly or wrongly,

I think wrongly.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		     my impression after reading the article is to place more blame on the engine packager than I previously felt.

When you know Dan's mindset .... OSH at all costs ..... there's no 
	


knowing what else he didn't do (besides not flying off phase one hours) 

in relation to the engine.  I have no dog in this fight, but my 

experience tells me that no matter how long it took, it was an accident 

waiting to happen.  The whole scenario is prime fodder for an accident 

seminar.  I only know what I've read here and the NTSB report ..... and 

I never knew Dan ..... but I feel a loss nonetheless.  I have this 

nagging thought that there must have been something someone could have 

done ..... but it seems he blew off those that tried to help.  No matter 

what, it was a sad event and I hope we learned something from it.

Linn

 	  Quote: 	
		   --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344762#344762

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Dan blew off offers of help from several other folks too, He was not willing

to listen to others.



Gary Specketer



--

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

Each one of us has a responsibility to fly the plane, know the details of 

the flight area and airports, and ultimately assure the plane will arrive at 

the destination safely (aka weather, winds, etc)  Anyone who would fly a 

plane from Penn to Florida with no working instruments and a faulty engine , 

than deny hearing warning from expensive avionics and experienced builders 

needs to take full responsibilty, not the subpar engine builder.

I just completed the transition training in Texas, Don McDonald gave me 

great insight and Alex great training, Dan decided to not get HP endorsement 

and training in a aircraft, to make matters worse he never setup all the 

ranges, than there is the shortcut of hours of training he needed. I have to 

admit after the training I did with Alex, Dan must have been a heck of a 

pilot to be able to do everything he did to fly the plane "blind".

This is what makes it so sad, I think Dan was a great pilot he just made 

numerous bad decisions to deny him to be all he was capable of.

Yes, the suburu and PSRU were "experimental" but regardless this falls 

completely on the PIC and the final decision on what to do regardless of any 

outside pressures. I agree, I initially felt there was outside pressures 

applied on Dan to get that engine to OSH.



--------------------------------------------------

From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:47 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I joined the community right before this tragic accident.



 Rightly or wrongly, my impression after reading the article is to place 

 more blame on the engine packager than I previously felt.



 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, 

 finishing kit in progress.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344762#344762

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath

I was on the fence about using an engine package like Dan used.  I talked to him on several occasions about his choice and was anxiously waiting to see his progress.  After meeting him and seeing his plane at OSH, I realized two things:



1. The lack of care and attention to detail and safety in his build.

2. The engine package he chose was no where near being ready for a "plug and play" install as the vendor touted.



I also was very disturbed that his engine provider was supporting his rushed and dangerous if not illegal progress.  I quickly came off the fence, purchased a new IO-540 from Van's and have never looked back.



That said, I believe his engine choice had very little if anything to do with his crash.  It was simply Dan's dangerous rush to get the thing flying and sort out the details later.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From the pictures published at the time, it appears he was trying to get the plane over a road and into the next field but landed before the road and slid hard into the embankment which destroyed and burned the plane.  The wreckage ended up in the middle of the road.  Probably a good example of why we should all practice those engine out approaches to a forced landing.

  
	


The few times I spoke with Dan he was a great guy to talk to.  At that time, I was just getting started with my build and was eager to pick everyones brain who was ahead of me.  No matter what question you asked of Dan, he would always try to lead you to believe he knew exactly what he was doing.



RIP

 

Dave Leikam

On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:51 AM, gary wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Dan blew off offers of help from several other folks too, He was not willing

 to listen to others.

 

 Gary Specketer

 

 --

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