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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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As the owner of 3 planes with Plenums (2 fiberglass, 1 metal) I would (strongly) recommend the standard baffle system. After years of fiddling around with plenums unless I was building a race plane a lot of effort on aero improvements I don’t see the value of a plenum, I only experienced the headaches. Look at all the flying Cessna’s, Cirrus’, Corvallis etc… None of those production planes need a Plenum. Add all the additional time it takes to remove the plenum top when doing injector balancing, spear plug removal, engine inspection, general maintanance for what gain? You may say how much time can it take to remove & install the plenum? Well my Plenum on the -10 has probably been on & off 300+ times (thank you James Cowl).
Once you integrate a Plenum into your system and then you have issues like inability to easily fly LOP or CHT issues you are then stuck with another variable to consider in resolving the problems where the problem may actually be the Plenum.
I look at most people’s factory build with Vans cowl and basic baffles and their planes generally fly LOP & have reasonable temps etc… If we build another -10 there will be NO Plenum.
As an observation of the Plenums you listed. None of them follow the ideal theoretical design of a plenum which is a smooth transition to every expanding volume. The ideal plenum would be a mate to the underside of the cowl getting substantially taller as you work aft.
Finally a plenum on an IO-360 is MUCH easier because you don’t have the oil tube mid-deck that you have to build around.
My recommendation is spend your time & money making a great looking & fitting baffle system and move on.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre
Can anyone please tell me if they have purchased and installed the fibreglass RV-10 plenum available from the folks at 'rvbits' in South Africa?
http://www.rvbits.com/
http://rvbits.mybigcommerce.com/products/RV10-GLASS-PLENUM-LID.html
http://rvbits.mybigcommerce.com/products/RV10-CARBON-PLENUM-LID.html
How well will the fibreglass hold up to the heat of the engine compared with the carbon fibre please?
Is this a worthwhile modification to reduce engine temperatures?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
Kind regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
#40299
[/b][/quote] RV10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,[/b]w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1[/quote] =======================[/b][/quote] m">http://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] -Matt Dralle, List A; http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] =======================[/b] [/quote]
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Patrick,
I can’t answer your question directly, but I suspect that Jan uses the same epoxy for both his carbon fiber and fiberglass layups. The epoxy would be more sensitive to heat than either the carbon or fiberglass. Epoxy that is room temperature cured is also going to be more sensitive to heat than epoxy that is cured in an oven. Jan is the only one to answer this question.
I too would be interested in real test data that shows temperatures with and without the plenum. I wouldn’t think that the carbon fiber would have any advantage other than weighing less.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 6:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre
Can anyone please tell me if they have purchased and installed the fibreglass RV-10 plenum available from the folks at 'rvbits' in South Africa?
http://www.rvbits.com/
http://rvbits.mybigcommerce.com/products/RV10-GLASS-PLENUM-LID.html
http://rvbits.mybigcommerce.com/products/RV10-CARBON-PLENUM-LID.html
How well will the fibreglass hold up to the heat of the engine compared with the carbon fibre please?
Is this a worthwhile modification to reduce engine temperatures?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
Kind regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
#40299
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567
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Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Many thanks to all who responded to my enquiry, its really appreciated. I really like you guys because of your openness, honesty and best of all your experience. I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch.
Is it worthwhile upgrading the rubber baffle seal material as supplied by Vans (black and rigid I think from memory), to a silicone sheet material that is a little more supple and more easily conforms to the shape of the upper cowl?
I see that baffle material is availabe as follows:
http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Baffle-Seal/6211/0/product_cat/index.html
http://www.skygeek.com/cs085x3x108g.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ams3320siliconebaffleseal.php
Any further guidance would be appreciated please.
Kind regards
Pat
[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Consider McFarlane's Baffle Saver silicone seal. A bit more money,
prevents abrasion of cowling by silicone.
On 7/3/2011 9:58 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Snip>> I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch
Spoken like a man who hasn’t gotten to installing his cowl yet. J
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:58 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre
Many thanks to all who responded to my enquiry, its really appreciated. I really like you guys because of your openness, honesty and best of all your experience. I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch.
Is it worthwhile upgrading the rubber baffle seal material as supplied by Vans (black and rigid I think from memory), to a silicone sheet material that is a little more supple and more easily conforms to the shape of the upper cowl?
I see that baffle material is availabe as follows:
http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Baffle-Seal/6211/0/product_cat/index.html
http://www.skygeek.com/cs085x3x108g.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ams3320siliconebaffleseal.php
Any further guidance would be appreciated please.
Kind regards
Pat
RV10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,[/b]w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1[/quote] =======================[/b][/quote] m">http://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] -Matt Dralle, List A; http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] =======================[/b] [/quote]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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I've been planning on a plenum ever since I started my -10 kit. I never
thought about the problem of having to remove it to make changes during
phase 1. What a wake-up call. However, I planned on attaching my
plenum top to the standard baffles ..... which, of course, prevents me
from buying a third-party plenum. So now I'm back to the plenum idea
.... but will do my phase 1 with the cowl baffle seal and then remove
it, replacing it with the plenum top. I've always hated the cowl seal
because making a perfect baffle seal is next to impossible and it always
degrades over time making it a PITA to maintain instead of fly.
Linn
On 7/4/2011 1:04 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
Consider McFarlane's Baffle Saver silicone seal. A bit more money,
prevents abrasion of cowling by silicone.
On 7/3/2011 9:58 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Many thanks to all who responded to my enquiry, its really
> appreciated. I really like you guys because of your openness,
> honesty and best of all your experience. I can't even imagine
> removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch.
> Is it worthwhile upgradingthe rubber baffle seal material as supplied
> by Vans (black and rigid I think from memory), to a silicone sheet
> material that is a little more supple and more easily conforms to the
> shape of the upper cowl?
> I see that baffle material is availabe as follows:
> http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Baffle-Seal/6211/0/product_cat/index.html
>
> http://www.skygeek.com/cs085x3x108g.html
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ams3320siliconebaffleseal.php
>
> Any further guidance would be appreciated please.
> Kind regards
> Pat
> *
> *
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Sounds almost as much fun as fitting the doors...................
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Snip>> I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch
Spoken like a man who hasn’t gotten to installing his cowl yet. J
Robin
|
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Shameless promotion:
I really like the big oil door we developed. Go to our website if
you're interested.
I think it's pertinent to this discussion since it's just about as
good as taking the top cowl off for inspection. Probably not a lot of
maintenance is going to get done, but being able to preflight the
entire top of the engine and behind the accessory case is comforting
to me.
Also, note how the rear baffle is canted forward at an angle. That
really helps when putting the cowl on (or closing the door) since
normally the seal kind of wants to stand up straight and interfere
with the cowl. This way it just lays down nicely. And notice the
nice orange line from the baffle on the inside of the door. That's
pretty indicative of a good seal.
No temp problems so far. Approaching 900 hours.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Sounds almost as much fun as fitting the doors...................
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:
> Snip>> I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch
>
> Spoken like a man who hasn’t gotten to installing his cowl yet. J
>
> Robin
============
|
============
RUMS -
============
ite -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
============
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:33 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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A fellow builder used my hanger for about a week. He installed the
"shameless promotion oil door". Looked nice and practical. I can see
the benefit.
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Jul 4, 2011, at 1:03 PM, Dave Saylor
<dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Shameless promotion:
I really like the big oil door we developed. Go to our website if
you're interested.
I think it's pertinent to this discussion since it's just about as
good as taking the top cowl off for inspection. Probably not a lot of
maintenance is going to get done, but being able to preflight the
entire top of the engine and behind the accessory case is comforting
to me.
Also, note how the rear baffle is canted forward at an angle. That
really helps when putting the cowl on (or closing the door) since
normally the seal kind of wants to stand up straight and interfere
with the cowl. This way it just lays down nicely. And notice the
nice orange line from the baffle on the inside of the door. That's
pretty indicative of a good seal.
No temp problems so far. Approaching 900 hours.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sounds almost as much fun as fitting the doors...................
>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:
>> Snip>> I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch
>>
>> Spoken like a man who hasn’t gotten to installing his cowl yet. J
>>
>>
>>
>> Robin
============
============
RUMS -
============
ite -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
============
>
<Baffle sealing.jpg>
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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Yeah, yeah, mate, us slow pokes will eventually get there. Just remember the story about the tortoise and the hair!
It will be finished when its finished.
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, 4 July 2011 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre
Snip>> I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch
Spoken like a man who hasn’t gotten to installing his cowl yet. J
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:58 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre
Many thanks to all who responded to my enquiry, its really appreciated. I really like you guys because of your openness, honesty and best of all your experience. I can't even imagine removing my cowls 300+ times, ouch.
Is it worthwhile upgrading the rubber baffle seal material as supplied by Vans (black and rigid I think from memory), to a silicone sheet material that is a little more supple and more easily conforms to the shape of the upper cowl?
I see that baffle material is availabe as follows:
http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Baffle-Seal/6211/0/product_cat/index.html
http://www.skygeek.com/cs085x3x108g.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ams3320siliconebaffleseal.php
Any further guidance would be appreciated please.
Kind regards
Pat
Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, | Quote: | | w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1 |
=======================m">http://forums.matronics.com | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
=======================[quote]
-8>Un/Subscription,
ore:
get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
1>Dralle, List Admin.
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Dave,
where did you get that silicon baffling material, need to replace my old
black one and I think that read silicon is way better!
Cheers Werner
do not archive
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:39 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Aircraft Spruce ; it's 1/8" thick.
---
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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05-00770 is the P/N from Spruce. This one is reinforced with
fiberglass. It holds up a little better.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave,
where did you get that silicon baffling material, need to replace my old
black one and I think that read silicon is way better!
Cheers Werner
do not archive
|
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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: RV-10 Fibreglass Plenum Vs Carbon Fibre |
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Many thanks Dave,
will order a bunch to get my Glastars temp down again until the 10 is
ready 
Cheers Werner
On 05.07.2011 16:09, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: |
05-00770 is the P/N from Spruce. This one is reinforced with
fiberglass. It holds up a little better.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Werner Schneider<glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dave,
>
> where did you get that silicon baffling material, need to replace my old
> black one and I think that read silicon is way better!
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> do not archive
|
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