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donaho(at)csrlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: Help I`m so confused

Dave and all, I am registered as a fixed wing pilot with the ASC, I have 

passed the written test for sport pilot, and thought that all I needed to 

do yet is take the practical test. I hope that I am still on the correct 

path, and that the inspector was in error. I just sent this to him. Hi, 

NAME DELETED  I found this info on the EAA website. I think this is the way 

I should go, If I can. (Aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate 

that meet above specifications ( I meet these) may be flown by sport 

pilots. However, the aircraft must remain in standard category and cannot 

be changed to light-sport aircraft category. Holders of a sport pilot 

certificate may fly an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate 

if it meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft) If I understand this 

and other statements on this webpage, I will still need the 16 hour course 

to do my inspection. but I will not need any dual instruction. A sport 

pilot license  ( which I almost have) is all I need. I found this info at 

http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html Please check this 

out when you have time, and get back to me. Thank you in advance for your 

help. Lanny Fetterman    When he replies I`ll let the list know what I 

found out.

donaho(at)csrlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Thanks to all that have replied, John, I have a student pilot license, so 

that I can fly legally. I thought I had all the bases covered, just one 

more thing that I`m confused about. I told the inspector that the FAA needs 

a flow chart to help people understand this process. He agreed, but that`s 

of little help since it dosen`t exist. Lanny

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: Help I`m so confused

 	  Quote: 	
		   Dave and all, I am registered as a fixed wing pilot with the ASC, I have

 passed the written test for sport pilot, and thought that all I needed to

 do yet is take the practical test.


	


Lanny,



    Assuming you were registered fixed wing with ASC before 9/04, and I 

assume you were since you've passed the written test, then you're correct.. 

You can just take the practical test and you'll be completely legal to fly 

your FS.



 I hope that I am still on the correct

 	  Quote: 	
		   path, and that the inspector was in error.


	


He was in error.



 >However, the aircraft must remain in standard category and cannot

 	  Quote: 	
		   be changed to light-sport aircraft category.


	


I've heard some people say that they were going to get theirs registered 

"Experimental - Amateur Built" so they don't have to attend the 16-hour 

course, then get it changed to ELSA before they sell it.  NO CAN DO!  See 

above.



Holders of a sport pilot

 	  Quote: 	
		   certificate may fly an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate

 if it meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft) If I understand this

 and other statements on this webpage, I will still need the 16 hour course

 to do my inspection. but I will not need any dual instruction. A sport

 pilot license  ( which I almost have) is all I need.


	


You are correct.



 When he replies I`ll let the list know what I

 	  Quote: 	
		   found out.


	


I think many of us will be interested in his answer.



AzDave

 	  Quote:

_________________
AzDave

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Yeah Lanny, but it will...  The FAA (Flight Standards) has gone ISO

9000/QMS/ETQ and one of the basics to those alphabet processes is flow

charts...  Supposedly this will have all inspectors saying the same

thing...  Hmmm, do I hear an echo?...  Have we heard this before and before

and before, etc...



DVD



On 5/14/06, Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Thanks to all that have replied, John, I have a student pilot license, so

 that I can fly legally. I thought I had all the bases covered, just one

 more thing that I`m confused about. I told the inspector that the FAA

 needs

 a flow chart to help people understand this process. He agreed, but that`=

s
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   of little help since it dosen`t exist. Lanny



=
	




=



=



=



 	  Quote: 	
		  




	




--

=F4=BF=F4  "Failure lies not in falling down. Failure lies in not getting u=

p."

(traditional Chinese proverb)

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Help I`m so confused

Lanny, maybe I'm missing something here...  If you're talking Kolb, it's no=

t

"Standard Category"...  The Kolb can only be Experimantal Light Sport,

Experimantal Amateur-Built, or Experimental Exhibition...



DVD



On 5/14/06, Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Dave and all, I am registered as a fixed wing pilot with the ASC, I have

 passed the written test for sport pilot, and thought that all I needed to

 do yet is take the practical test. I hope that I am still on the correct

 path, and that the inspector was in error. I just sent this to him. Hi,

 NAME DELETED  I found this info on the EAA website. I think this is the

 way

 I should go, If I can. (Aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificat=

e
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   that meet above specifications ( I meet these) may be flown by sport

 pilots. However, the aircraft must remain in standard category and cannot

 be changed to light-sport aircraft category. Holders of a sport pilot

 certificate may fly an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate

 if it meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft) If I understand thi=

s
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   and other statements on this webpage, I will still need the 16 hour cours=

e
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   to do my inspection. but I will not need any dual instruction. A sport

 pilot license  ( which I almost have) is all I need. I found this info at

 http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html Please check thi=

s
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   out when you have time, and get back to me. Thank you in advance for your

 help. Lanny Fetterman    When he replies I`ll let the list know what I

 found out.



=
	




=



=



=



 	  Quote: 	
		  




	




--

=F4=BF=F4  "Failure lies not in falling down. Failure lies in not getting u=

p."

(traditional Chinese proverb)

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

donaho(at)csrlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

OK Let me try to pinpoint my question, Can anyone point me to a statement 

that will tell me what class my Firestar II needs it`s airworthiness 

certification in, so that I can fly it with a sport pilot license. The 

airworthiness certificate has not been issued yet and I don`t want to be 

locked in the wrong category. I will take the repairman course if need be. 

It`s the dual instruction I feel is overkill since I have several hundred 

hours flying ultralights. 54 of those hours  in the Kolb,  Lanny

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Lanny, I already gave them to you...



Experimental Light Sport, Experimental Amateur-Built, or Experimental

Exhibition (you don't want this one)...



DVD



On 5/14/06, Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net> wrote:

[quote]

 



 OK Let me try to pinpoint my question, Can anyone point me to a statement

 that will tell me what class my Firestar II needs it`s airworthiness

 certification in, so that I can fly it with a sport pilot license. The

 airworthiness certificate has not been issued yet and I don`t want to be

 locked in the wrong category. I will take the repairman course if need be=

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

blackbird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Ok guys,

I am building my Kolbra .....It will be in the experimental -amateur-built 

category......I have assembled this aircraft and have the logbook and pics 

to prove it.............I will be filling out the repairman 

certificate......I will be doing the yearly inspections on this aircraft 

Legally........I will be flying with a sport-pilot liscense.............I 

will NOT be registering this aircraft as an LSA...............

To recieve an airworthiness certificate there is a guideline for paperwork, 

and placards........This THING may look like an aircraft, but only the 

designer and builder can sign-off and STATE that it will fly......The 

airworthiness is the form that makes this LEGAL in the FAA's 

eyes................



A gyro friend of mine had an airworthiness certificate for a Engine 

stand......LOL.....when the inspector (FAA) stated that it would not fly and 

refused to give it one........My friend asked what his name was to be put on 

the designer listing for it.....He refused to have it stated.......BUT, 

issued the airworthiness anyway.....He had to ....it is his job..........AND 

it was for free........My friend had to just make an 

appointment......LOL.....

True story,



By the way,



I am an EAA chapter president and stay well informed on these paperwork 

matters....

What's you guys opinions?....LOL.....I read this list 3 times a 

day...........

Wayne McCullough

Kolbra # 004

---

_________________
Wish I lived in the American REPUBLIC!!!

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

There appears to be some confuzzion on all the new LSA/Sport Pilot 

issues,

Including a few geriatric FAA employees.



Let's sort some things out.

First do not confuse Sport Pilot and LSA.  Two different issues.



Correct me if I am wrong.  You can still get issued a repairman's

certificate for an experimental amateur built homebuilt that YOU

are the manufacturer of???????  Or until some dropdead date?



Advantage for going the ELSA route is that it can be inspected

by someone certificated as a repairman for that make and model?



Advantage for staying with Experimental Amateur Built is  that

you can continue to modify it with only subsequent "test periods"

to sustain airworthiness conditions.  This is more important

to some builders than others.  The initials R.P. come to mind.



I foresee much puzzlement.

-BB  do not archive

On 14, May 2006, at 4:44 PM, Wayne T. McCullough wrote:



[quote] 

 <blackbird754(at)alltel.net>



 Ok guys,

 I am building my Kolbra .....It will be in the experimental 

 -amateur-built

 category......I have assembled this aircraft and have the logbook and 

 pics

 to prove it.............I will be filling out the repairman

 certificate......I will be doing the yearly inspections on this 

 aircraft

 Legally........I will be flying with a sport-pilot 

 liscense.............I

 will NOT be registering this aircraft as an LSA...............

 To recieve an airworthiness certificate there is a guideline for 

 paperwork,

 and placards........This THING may look like an aircraft, but only the

 designer and builder can sign-off and STATE that it will fly......The

 airworthiness is the form that makes this LEGAL in the FAA's

 eyes................



 A gyro friend of mine had an airworthiness certificate for a Engine

 stand......LOL.....when the inspector (FAA) stated that it would not 

 fly and

 refused to give it one........My friend asked what his name was to be 

 put on

 the designer listing for it.....He refused to have it stated.......BUT,

 issued the airworthiness anyway.....He had to ....it is his 

 job..........AND

 it was for free........My friend had to just make an

 appointment......LOL.....

 True story,



 By the way,



 I am an EAA chapter president and stay well informed on these paperwork

 matters....

 What's you guys opinions?....LOL.....I read this list 3 times a

 day...........

 Wayne McCullough

 Kolbra # 004

 ---

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

BB, the problem with registering the aircraft ELSA, is that it needs to be inspected by a Light Sport DAR. The traditional DAR's cannot inspect it unless they have been endorsed to do so. There are not many LSA inspectors around the country and it would cost more to have the LSA DAR to come and inspect it.



Ralph



-- robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:




There appears to be some confuzzion on all the new LSA/Sport Pilot 

issues,

Including a few geriatric FAA employees.



Let's sort some things out.

First do not confuse Sport Pilot and LSA.  Two different issues.



Correct me if I am wrong.  You can still get issued a repairman's

certificate for an experimental amateur built homebuilt that YOU

are the manufacturer of???????  Or until some dropdead date?



Advantage for going the ELSA route is that it can be inspected

by someone certificated as a repairman for that make and model?



Advantage for staying with Experimental Amateur Built is  that

you can continue to modify it with only subsequent "test periods"

to sustain airworthiness conditions.  This is more important

to some builders than others.  The initials R.P. come to mind.



I foresee much puzzlement.

-BB  do not archive

On 14, May 2006, at 4:44 PM, Wayne T. McCullough wrote:



[quote] 

 <blackbird754(at)alltel.net>



 Ok guys,

 I am building my Kolbra .....It will be in the experimental 

 -amateur-built

 category......I have assembled this aircraft and have the logbook and 

 pics

 to prove it.............I will be filling out the repairman

 certificate......I will be doing the yearly inspections on this 

 aircraft

 Legally........I will be flying with a sport-pilot 

 liscense.............I

 will NOT be registering this aircraft as an LSA...............

 To recieve an airworthiness certificate there is a guideline for 

 paperwork,

 and placards........This THING may look like an aircraft, but only the

 designer and builder can sign-off and STATE that it will fly......The

 airworthiness is the form that makes this LEGAL in the FAA's

 eyes................



 A gyro friend of mine had an airworthiness certificate for a Engine

 stand......LOL.....when the inspector (FAA) stated that it would not 

 fly and

 refused to give it one........My friend asked what his name was to be 

 put on

 the designer listing for it.....He refused to have it stated.......BUT,

 issued the airworthiness anyway.....He had to ....it is his 

 job..........AND

 it was for free........My friend had to just make an

 appointment......LOL.....

 True story,



 By the way,



 I am an EAA chapter president and stay well informed on these paperwork

 matters....

 What's you guys opinions?....LOL.....I read this list 3 times a

 day...........

 Wayne McCullough

 Kolbra # 004

 ---

blackbird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

You can be the manufacturer or assemble a Kit under the 51 % rule...

AND YOU can do the yearly conditional inspections....

ELSA aircraft and LSA aircraft have their own set of rules respectively and 

Ralph is CORRECT in that there are not many LSA inspectors out there 

yet.....

Eaa national web site has great information, along with AOPA ...

Wayne



---

_________________
Wish I lived in the American REPUBLIC!!!

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

inspected by someone certificated as a repairman for that make and model?

Wrong, it must be the owner of the plane.



[quote]From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: HELP I`m so confused

Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 17:51:14 -0400






There appears to be some confuzzion on all the new LSA/Sport Pilot

issues,

Including a few geriatric FAA employees.



Let's sort some things out.

First do not confuse Sport Pilot and LSA.  Two different issues.



Correct me if I am wrong.  You can still get issued a repairman's

certificate for an experimental amateur built homebuilt that YOU

are the manufacturer of???????  Or until some dropdead date?



Advantage for going the ELSA route is that it can be inspected

by someone certificated as a repairman for that make and model?



Advantage for staying with Experimental Amateur Built is  that

you can continue to modify it with only subsequent "test periods"

to sustain airworthiness conditions.  This is more important

to some builders than others.  The initials R.P. come to mind.



I foresee much puzzlement.

-BB  do not archive

On 14, May 2006, at 4:44 PM, Wayne T. McCullough wrote:



 > 

 > <blackbird754(at)alltel.net>

 >

 > Ok guys,

 >

 >

 > I am building my Kolbra .....It will be in the experimental

 > -amateur-built

 > category......I have assembled this aircraft and have the logbook and

 > pics

 > to prove it.............I will be filling out the repairman

 > certificate......I will be doing the yearly inspections on this

 > aircraft

 > Legally........I will be flying with a sport-pilot

 > liscense.............I

 > will NOT be registering this aircraft as an LSA...............

 >

 >

 > To recieve an airworthiness certificate there is a guideline for

 > paperwork,

 > and placards........This THING may look like an aircraft, but only the

 > designer and builder can sign-off and STATE that it will fly......The

 > airworthiness is the form that makes this LEGAL in the FAA's

 > eyes................

 >

 > A gyro friend of mine had an airworthiness certificate for a Engine

 > stand......LOL.....when the inspector (FAA) stated that it would not

 > fly and

 > refused to give it one........My friend asked what his name was to be

 > put on

 > the designer listing for it.....He refused to have it stated.......BUT,

 > issued the airworthiness anyway.....He had to ....it is his

 > job..........AND

 > it was for free........My friend had to just make an

 > appointment......LOL.....

 >

 >

 > True story,

 >

 > By the way,

 >

 > I am an EAA chapter president and stay well informed on these paperwork

 > matters....

 > What's you guys opinions?....LOL.....I read this list 3 times a

 > day...........

 >

 >

 > Wayne McCullough

 > Kolbra # 004

 > ---

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

.. inspected by someone certificated as a repairman for that make and 

model?

       Wrong, it must be the owner of the plane....



The LSA Repairman Certificate has two possible ratings. The 16 hour 

course is for Inspection and applies only to an E-LSA that the 

repairman owns. The other rating (Maintenance) is a much longer course 

but entitles its holder to do inspections on any E-LSA or S-LSA and 

charge for his services, if he so desires. It is sort of like a junior 

A&P ticket limited to LSA. The LSA Repairman Certificate with 

Maintenance Rating also allows its holder to do any prescribed 

maintenance on any S-LSA in the class (airplane, for example) that the 

Repairman Certificate applies to, and that the manufacturer explicitly 

states is permitted. He can charge for this service as well.



For aircraft registered as Exp. Amateur Built, there are only two kinds 

of people that are legally allowed to do annual condition inspections. 

One is the person with the Repairman Certificate specific to that 

aircraft (the builder) or any A&P mechanic. Maintenance on Exp Am-built 

aircraft can be done by its owner even if he did not build it.



Regardless of which registration is done, it must stay with that type 

of registration for as long as the aircraft lives. It cannot be  

changed from either to the other.



Regardless of which registration is used, as long as it does not exceed 

any of the limitations for LSA, any pilot rated Sport or higher can fly 

it AFTER it has been inspected, and where applicable, the phase one 

testing is completed. I THINK (not certain) that if it is exp-am-built 

the phase one testing must be done by a Private Pilot or higher but if 

it is E-LSA then a Sport Pilot can fly it immediately after its 

inspection.



Thom in Buffalo

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

On 5/15/06, Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Regardless of which registration is done, it must stay with that type

 of registration for as long as the aircraft lives. It cannot be

 changed from either to the other.


	


A subtle exception to this rule:  if someone buys an SLSA and then

decides they want to do the maintenance for it (assuming they take the

LS-I course), then they can request that it be changed from an SLSA to

an ELSA.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Regardless of which registration is used, as long as it does not exceed

 any of the limitations for LSA, any pilot rated Sport or higher can fly

 it AFTER it has been inspected, and where applicable, the phase one

 testing is completed. I THINK (not certain) that if it is exp-am-built

 the phase one testing must be done by a Private Pilot or higher but if

 it is E-LSA then a Sport Pilot can fly it immediately after its

 inspection.


	


Another point; if the aircraft is a fomer "fat ultralight" and you

have, say, 100 hours of flying time in it, and when it's converted to

an E-LSA, and the operating limitations say you must fly it for, say,

5 hours for Phase I testing, then you ALREADY have more than 5 hours

of flying it, so your Phase I testing is complete.  The key to this is

that the operating limitation do not say the 5 hours of Phase I flying

need to be done AFTER it was converted to ELSA.



I got this info in the LS-I course I took this weekend.



  -- Robert

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

eagle1(at)commspeed.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Say Lar. Why don't you hook up a trickle charger while you are gone to MV. 

When you get back it will be charged up. Just leave it on, it wouldn't over 

charge. If you don't have one, they are only about $20.

     Az Bald Eagle



---

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: HELP I`m so confused

Got one, and I'll do that.  Thanks George.     I'm on the final count-down, 

and trying to figure what to load 1st.  Ahhhh...........dilemmas. 

Lar.                Do not Archive.



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

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