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Gross Weight increase

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rockford67

Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Hey Pulsar owners,



I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?



Thanks for any tips,

Chris

ccoulter(at)wavecable.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:40:11 -0700

  "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>

 

 Hey Pulsar owners,

 

 I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm 

wondering if anyone has any documentation about 

increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and 

I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

 

 Thanks for any tips,

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346670#346670

 

 

 Leave it where it is.


	


Clarke >

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

Un/Subscription,

Forums!

Admin.

bernard.wilder2(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Does your plane have wood or composite covered wings ? ? ?

  

 Bernie Wilder

 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:40 PM, rockford67 <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)>

 

Hey Pulsar owners,



I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

 

Thanks for any tips,

Chris





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346670#346670

 ist Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

esalehto(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Hi Chris,

I have Pulsar XP and my GW is 1060. I have as well Rotax 912UL, 80 hp engine.



Thanks,

Esa

From: rockford67 <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:40 AM

Subject: Gross Weight  increase



--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)>



Hey Pulsar owners,



I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?



Thanks for any tips,

Chris





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346670#346670

/Navigator?Pulsar-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigatosp;              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

=   --> http://ww=======================

 [quote][b]

rockford67

Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase

Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less than 250lbs left. 



So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what sort of equipment do they have?



Chris

pilot623(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Chris,



For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the

serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure

someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how

that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S

and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has

gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,

fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.



Jim



--

rockford67

Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase

Hey Jim,

Mine is an XP 912. Serial # 462. I have composite spars and skins, and a heavier duty nose gear (one with an aerodynamic shape instead of a tube). 

My manuals are a dec 1994 revision. 



Another local guy suggested that body filler has added significant weight to some examples. I never did check his weight but his was a beauty with dynon, avmap, and some nice innovations for flap handle, ventilation, etc. 



My biggest challenge is that I need a stainless firewall and the current one is aluminum. Engines gotta come out. I need a gascolator too and carb heat. It's just the regs here in Canada - no exceptions. 



C

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Chris,



Mine is #456, xp with 912 engine. It has a few "improvements" including an ss firewall, electric flaps, etc and weighs in at about 648 lbs. Can carry two lightweights like me, full fuel and a little baggage. Never felt the need for a greater weight limit.



Brian



Sent from my iPhone



On 19/07/2011, at 4:16 PM, "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less than 250lbs left. 

 

 So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what sort of equipment do they have?

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347029#347029

w7ikt(at)fly-web.us
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

When I built my XP serial #394 I stated the gross           weight as 1100lb.

           Composite Spars and skins on the wings.

           

           On a certified plane you would need and STC and form 337 to           change the gross weight.

           Since experimentals do not have STC's or 337's a log book           entry should make the change.

           The FAA could consider it a major change and require 5 or 10           hours of test flying without passengers.

           

           On the question of is the plane strong enough to handle the           gross weight increase consider Bernie unplanned high speed           test flight way over red line.

              God Bless

             Bob Heiser

     

     On 7/19/2011 10:49 AM, pilot623 wrote:     [quote]       [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com> (pilot623(at)gmail.com)  Chris,  For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop, fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.  Jim  --

bernard.wilder2(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

There are people  who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy.  Haven't heard of one breaking yet.

  

 Of more concern to me was the CG calculation.  With my XP if I load to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG limit.

  

 Bernie Wilder

  

 Bernie Wilder

 On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>

 

Chris,



For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the

serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure

someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how

 that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S

and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has

gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,

 fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.



Jim



--

freedom4life(at)xtra.co.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

[quote]   My Pulsar XP weighed in at 568lb when first    constructed.  1060lb was the design limit for my model.  Like all    aircraft it has gained weight since with a constant speed prop and several    other fitments.  I have done the conversions into pounds to see what I    sometimes carry and there have been times when it has been loaded to    1150lb.  The main thing I have found you need to watch at these weights    is the stall becomes more of a snap than a docile departure and as Bernie says    if get low on fuel your CoG goes a little too far rearward.  I am nearly    always carrying 60lb in the luggage compartment as I take my Border Collie    with me everywhere plus tools, tie downs and first aid kit etc.  The dog    weighs 44lb of this lot.  So they will carry the load but I don't take it    into any turbulence or throw it around when I am over gross.

    

   Cliff McChesney

   ZK KFC



   There are people  who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy.     Haven't heard of one breaking yet.

    

   Of more concern to me was the CG calculation.  With my XP if I load    to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG    limit.

    

   Bernie Wilder

    

   Bernie Wilder

   On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

   [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>



Chris,



For      weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly      the

serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm      sure

someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed      and how

that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with      Rotax 912S

and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most      planes, it has

gained weight over time with the addition of another auto      pilot, CS prop,

fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little      weight.



Jim



--

alan99gill(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

From: Cliff McChesney <freedom4life(at)xtra.co.nz>

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, 19 July 2011, 22:48

Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: Gross Weight increase

 [quote] My Pulsar XP weighed in at 568lb when first constructed.  1060lb was the design limit for my model.  Like all aircraft it has gained weight since with a constant speed prop and several other fitments.  I have done the conversions into pounds to see what I sometimes carry and there have been times when it has been loaded to 1150lb.  The main thing I have found you need to watch at these weights is the stall becomes more of a snap than a docile departure and as Bernie says if get low on fuel your CoG goes a little too far rearward.  I am nearly always carrying 60lb in the luggage compartment as I take my Border Collie with me everywhere plus tools, tie downs and first aid kit etc.  The dog weighs 44lb of this lot.  So they will carry the load but I don't take it into any turbulence or throw it around when I am over gross.

 Cliff McChesney

 ZK KFC

 There are people  who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy.  Haven't heard of one breaking yet.

 Of more concern to me was the CG calculation.  With my XP if I load to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG limit.

 Bernie Wilder

 Bernie Wilder

 On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>

Chris,

For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the

serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure

someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how

that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S

and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has

gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,

fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.

Jim

--

sonja.englert(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Increasing the gross weight increases the wing spar stresses and reduces the margin for the landing gear. The Pulsar has a 4.4 g limit load factor, so basically the wings are capable of lifting 4.4 x 1060 lb = 4664 lb. If you increase the gross weight for example by 100 lb, the limit load factor would be reduced to 4.0 g. It is actually not quite as simple as this, but this shows essentially what happens. I would not recommend doing it.



Sonja



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ccoulter(at)wavecable.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:16:47 -0700

  "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>

 

 Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the 

load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector 

suggested that if the right calculations could be done, 

reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I 

guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the 

Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm 

not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what 

the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an 

unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a 

look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in 

at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he 

has less than 250lbs left. 

 

 So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of 

things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump 

and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is 

definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to 

keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would 

eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But 

all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the 

weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners 

have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they 

do, what sort of equipment do they have?

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347029#347029

 

 

 My XP Series I is 600 lbs.  I understand the Series III comes in at about 700.  Mark Browns 582 is under 500. 


	


Clarke

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

Un/Subscription,

Forums!

Admin.

ccoulter(at)wavecable.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:08:51 -0400

  Bernard Wilder <bernard.wilder2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   There are people  who are flying their Pulsars a little 

heavy.  Haven't

 heard of one breaking yet.

 

 Of more concern to me was the CG calculation.  With my 

XP if I load to max

 gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust 

the aft CG limit.

 

 Bernie Wilder

 

 Bernie Wilder

 

 On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 

<pilot623(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

> 

><pilot623(at)gmail.com>

>

> Chris,

>

> For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model 

>and possibly the

> serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info 

>but I'm sure

> someone here can tell you when and how the various 

>models changed and how

> that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 

>2 with Rotax 912S

> and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like 

>most planes, it has

> gained weight over time with the addition of another 

>auto pilot, CS prop,

> fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little 

>weight.

>

> Jim

>


	


With me and my wife and 2 galons of fuel ( worst case) we 

can only have 30 lbs of luggage or we go aft CG.



Clarke

[quote]> --

w7ikt(at)fly-web.us
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: Gross Weight increase

Pulsar XP N12RV composite wings and spars VFR panel w           autopilot 570 lb empty.

           I was careful when building to use just enough resin to wet           the glass and used peel ply paper towels and sand bags to           absorb the extra resin whenever possible.

           Most of the extra weight is likely extra resin - hard to           remove now.

           

              God Bless

             Bob Heiser

     

     On 7/21/2011 7:52 PM, HUGH COULTER wrote:     [quote]-->       Pulsar-List message posted by: "HUGH COULTER"       <ccoulter(at)wavecable.com> (ccoulter(at)wavecable.com)       

       

       On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:16:47 -0700       

        "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca) wrote:       

        	  Quote: 	
		  --> Pulsar-List message posted by:         "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)         

         

         Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on         the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the         right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could         allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G         limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but         I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what         the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an         unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at         the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at         800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less         than 250lbs left. 

         So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will         reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus         a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few         pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility         and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are         possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get         the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have         Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what         sort of equipment do they have?         

         

         Chris         

         

         

         

         

         Read this topic online here:         

         

         http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347029#347029         

         

         

         My XP Series I is 600 lbs.  I understand the Series III comes in         at about 700.  Mark Browns 582 is under 500. 	
       

       Clarke       

        	  Quote: 	
		           

         

         

         

         Un/Subscription,         

         Forums!         

         Admin.         

         

         

         

       	
       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

     [b]

rockford67

Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase

Bob I think you are right about the resin. Possibly one of the single biggest weight problems. Always been a metal airplane guy, but now that I've this glass bird I'm watching some you tube videos about layups etc. Seems the important thing is to use as little resin as possible. The extra resin doesn't add any strength. Wish I could still buy a new Pulsar kit. Would be fun to give it a try from scratch. 



C

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