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Load Analysis Spread Sheet

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mskoehn(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:24 pm Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

Kind of a beginner's  question here.  I am sure someone out there has a good example of a Load  Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting for varying power  loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical  architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing  that does anyone have a laundry list of power consumptions of representative  airframe equipment found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just  trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.

  

 Thanks in  advance,

  

   [quote][b]

fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

Check this one out courtesy of Vertical  Power.

  

 http://www.verticalpower.com/docs/Device_Amps.pdf

  

 Bevan



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  mike

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:21 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Load  Analysis Spread Sheet

 

 Kind of a beginner's  question here.  I am sure someone out there has a good example of a Load  Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting for varying power  loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical  architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing  that does anyone have a laundry list of power consumptions of representative  airframe equipment found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just  trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.

  

 Thanks in  advance,

  

[quote]



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[b]

james(at)etravel.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

Mike, 



I found a useful exercise was to create a spreadsheet with columns for various stages of flight (e.g. startup, taxi, climbout, cruise, descent, etc.) and rows for the various items of equipment.  Some basic formulas will give you a precise understanding of the loads at different points, along with a theoretical maximum.  

 



You can further break this down so that the rows are grouped together in "busses", e.g. main bus, endurance bus, to then determine other answers, e.g. how long might your battery last if you're on your endurance bus without an alternator.  

 



I've a spreadsheet with all this on if you want it.

HTH

James  



On 19 July 2011 08:20, mike <mskoehn(at)comcast.net (mskoehn(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]     Kind of a beginner's  question here.  I am sure someone out there has a good example of a Load  Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting for varying power  loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical  architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing  that does anyone have a laundry list of power consumptions of representative  airframe equipment found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just  trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.

  

 Thanks in  advance,

  

    	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

At 02:20 AM 7/19/2011, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Kind of a beginner's question here.  I am sure someone out there has a good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a laundry list of power consumptions of representative airframe equipment found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel time. 	


    Check out the downloads at:



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/



    If you're handy with Excel and really want a

    self-calculating spread sheet, there are

    a couple of examples. Others here on the List

    no doubt have others to share.



    If you're doing a study on a Beechjet, then

    a spread-sheet is the only way to go. I suspect

    that a simple pencil/paper/calculator apporach

    is the fastest path to understanging by filling

    our a form like



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf



    This is an adaptation of the forms we were

    using on TC aircraft 60 years ago.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

Check www.verticalpower.com for  their load planning spreadsheets.

  

 -Vern

    

  From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:14 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: Load Analysis Spread  Sheet

  



 At  02:20 AM 7/19/2011, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Kind of a beginner's question here.  I am sure    someone out there has a good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something    in visual basic, accounting for varying power loads in their design? I am    looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical architecture that might be    modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a    laundry list of power consumptions of representative airframe equipment found    in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just trying to save some    re-invent the wheel time. 	


   Check out the  downloads at:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/



    If you're handy with Excel and really want a

   self-calculating  spread sheet, there are

   a couple of examples. Others here on the  List

   no doubt have others to share.



   If  you're doing a study on a Beechjet, then

   a spread-sheet is the  only way to go. I suspect

   that a simple pencil/paper/calculator  apporach

   is the fastest path to understanging by  filling

   our a form like



http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf



    This is an adaptation of the forms we were

   using on TC aircraft  60 years ago.



 

  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		  



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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
   

No virus found in this  message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus  Database: 1518/3774 - Release Date: 07/19/11

   [quote][b]

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

You are going thru the same process as all of us have.  Look at     everything you can find, steal as much as can and along the way     you'll get you're head wrapped around it.  My worksheet with load     analysis is attached.

     

     I assume you are already familiar with Bob's Z-designs (a collection     of well vetted electrical architectures for our machines).  Starting     (and staying) there is the way to avoid re-inventing any wheels. My     version of Bob's Z-14 is also attached.

     

     

     On 7/19/2011 3:20 AM, mike wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                       Kind             of a beginner's question here.  I am sure someone out there             has a good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something             in visual basic, accounting for varying power loads in their             design? I am looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical             architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I             have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a laundry list             of power consumptions of representative airframe equipment             found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point?             Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.

        

       Thanks             in advance,

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Tigressa_Wire_Book_and_Load_Analysis_GRT_-_fuse-centric_V2.8.xls

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

At 02:32 PM 7/19/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  You are going thru the same process as all of us have.  Look at 

everything you can find, steal as much as can and along the way 

you'll get you're head wrapped around it.


	


    Agreed.  Many builders start with a strong urge to "keep

    everything running" in spite of inevitable failures of all kinds.

    By inevitable failure I mean no piece of hardware on your

    airplane has an infinite service life, nor are any components

    immune to the effects of error in craftsmanship or degraded

    performance due to misunderstanding or neglect. The short

    version of this idea is "Things Break".



    Suggest you review the article on Failure Modes Effects

    analysis at:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure%20Modes%20Effects%20Analysis.pdf



     also chapter 17 in the 'Connection



     Then figure out what you plan to do personally to

     deal with the failure of any device or system in the

     airplane. It's easy to spend hours, pounds and dollars

     designing an electrical system that will keep every

     device in the airplane POWERED while ignoring the

     non-zero probability that that coveted system is not

     immune from FAILURE.



     I've mentioned many times here on this List that

     my personal approach to flying airplanes (always

     rental machines) is to be prepared to aviate and navigate

     and navigate to airport of intended destination

     in what I call "The J-3 Mode". Toward that end my

     flight bag has always included . . .



http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf



     My goals for having confidence to operate my airplane-

     of-the-day is predicated on the idea that at best I'll get

     there as long as the engine runs and the flight

     controls stay hooked up. At worst, I'll get an

     adventure on some airport I never before intended

     to visit.



     For anyone setting out to configure their electrical

     system, the first question is, "Can I operate this

     airplane in the vast majority of anticipated missions

     with the master switches OFF?"



     If the answer to that is "yes", then I'll suggest

     that your extra-ordinary needs for electrical energy

     are small to zero. If "no", then what's the practical

     solution to making sure the MINIMAL compliment of

     additional hardware is powered up for longer than

     you have fuel to keep the engine running?



     Start with solving that problem first. What is your

     MINIMALIST plan and skill set for comfortable

     termination of flight and figure the energy budget

     for delivering to that plan?



     If any of those equipment items are necessary for

     keeping the engine running they should be powered from

     a battery bus. In other words, if you've got

     smoke in the cockpit, you should be able to

     turn the master switch OFF and STILL continue

     to airport of intended destination.



     After conducting this exercise, then figure out

     how many more electro-whizzies you'd like to

     have running, not for necessity but for convenience.

     Any airplane can be successfully operated to a

     comfortable arrival with ZERO engine instrumentation

     . . . if you want to take the time to learn how

     to do it. An airplane can be successfully navigated

     with ZERO panel mounted nav-aids. Communication is

     a driving consideration only during the approach to

     landing phase and this can be done with a hand-held.



     After figuring out how you will achieve this level

     of confidence and competence with the manner in which

     you intend to use your airplane, then decide what

     your dollar, weight and volume budget is for adding

     more "stuff".



     This exercise goes to two important points. Only

     a tiny fraction of unhappy days in the cockpit have

     roots in electrical system failures. The vast majority

     of unhappy days in the cockpit have roots in poor

     piloting skills usually combined with poor decision

     making processes in dealing with what should be

     a no-big deal failure.



     If things didn't break on airplanes, FBO's would be

     out of business. Only YOU can make sure the majority

     if not all of your failures are a maintenance event

     as opposed to an emergency arising from lack of

     skill/planning.



     After this thought exercise you are now properly informed

     to carry out a load analysis that will drive architecture,

     weight, system complexity, and cost of ownership.

     The short review for all the above is, "Please disabuse

     yourself of the notion that backups to backups is

     any sort of replacement for understanding your machine,

     it's limitations and your own limitations. Tony Levier

     in a '60 model C-172 is a lot less likely to suffer

     a bad day in the cockpit than most of today's pilots

     buying a Malibu or A-36 with all the goodies.



     Some of my most enjoyable cross countries were conducted

     in the J-3 mode. Go down low, get out the maps, punch

     up a destination on the $100 hand held GPS and shut all

     the rest of that stuff off. If you can do it for fun, you

     can do it when conditions demand it.

   Bob . . .

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

There's more electrical system wisdom condensed in Bob's post than 

you'll glean in 2 weeks of surfing!

do not archive



I'm forced to reflect on it all after driving my Maule into RDU 

yesterday, having lunch, and then requiring a 'jump' to get out!

What happened?  I've been flying around with a marginal battery.  It was 

marginal at my annual a few weeks ago but it was not noticed.  Since 

then, I've flown it every day and noted that the solenoid sometimes 

didn't always engage on the first try so it's totally my bad at this 

point.  But I was getting it started each time... until I sat on the 

ramp for 5 mins running the panel while talking to RDUclearance 

delivery.  By the time I tried to start.... buzz buzz, but no click.



I slinked into the FBO and asked for a jump.  After a bit, a lineman 

showed up with a cart but alas, I have no plug and the oil access hatch 

doesn't really give access to the battery.  He tsk tsk'd me and observed 

we couldn't remove the cowling to start it if your battery is really dead.



He was giving me an up and down look as I  looked at this grizzled 

lineman wondering what we would do amidst all the whining turbines.  I 

mumbled that hand propping could work but assumed policy prohibited such 

antics at big airport FBO.  He looked at my well worn mount, noted  the 

pilot door removed for summer comfort, and seemed to note the paint and 

oil stains on my shorts.  Looking over his shoulder he said, "let's prop 

it then".



I have limited experience with propping but know that the 'propper' is 

placing a good bit of trust in one's teammate.  I assumed he knew what 

he was doing and he assumed I knew what I was doing and off we went.  He 

said "prime it".  I said, "it doesn't need much", knowing that just 1 

throttle pump would be needed at this particular point.  He gave the 

appropriate mags on and mags off commands, I repeated them loudly and 

hand signalled them for insurance.  Took 3 pulls and off I went.



Back in the system, I was queued behind a Tobago for takeoff.  The 

controller was familiar enough with the 2 of us to give the Tobago 

clearance for runway heading and  had me rolling just as his wheels left 

the ground.  I got an immediate right turn on course to cross the 

parallel.  I wrapped it up  tight and crossed before midfield as he 

cleared 2 aircraft on the parallel then finally right turned the Tobago 

on course after airliners landed and took off the parallel.  I was in 

the home pattern before the Tobago caught up.  That was cool!



Bill "still driving the Maule but feeling the '10" Watson



On 7/19/2011 7:15 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 02:32 PM 7/19/2011, you wrote:

> You are going thru the same process as all of us have.  Look at 

> everything you can find, steal as much as can and along the way 

> you'll get you're head wrapped around it.



    Agreed.  Many builders start with a strong urge to "keep

    everything running" in spite of inevitable failures of all kinds.

    By inevitable failure I mean no piece of hardware on your

    airplane has an infinite service life, nor are any components

    immune to the effects of error in craftsmanship or degraded

    performance due to misunderstanding or neglect. The short

    version of this idea is "Things Break".



    Suggest you review the article on Failure Modes Effects

    analysis at:



 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure%20Modes%20Effects%20Analysis.pdf 

     also chapter 17 in the 'Connection



     Then figure out what you plan to do personally to

     deal with the failure of any device or system in the

     airplane. It's easy to spend hours, pounds and dollars

     designing an electrical system that will keep every

     device in the airplane POWERED while ignoring the

     non-zero probability that that coveted system is not

     immune from FAILURE.



     I've mentioned many times here on this List that

     my personal approach to flying airplanes (always

     rental machines) is to be prepared to aviate and navigate

     and navigate to airport of intended destination

     in what I call "The J-3 Mode". Toward that end my

     flight bag has always included . . .



 http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf 

     My goals for having confidence to operate my airplane-

     of-the-day is predicated on the idea that at best I'll get

     there as long as the engine runs and the flight

     controls stay hooked up. At worst, I'll get an

     adventure on some airport I never before intended

     to visit.



     For anyone setting out to configure their electrical

     system, the first question is, "Can I operate this

     airplane in the vast majority of anticipated missions

     with the master switches OFF?"



     If the answer to that is "yes", then I'll suggest

     that your extra-ordinary needs for electrical energy

     are small to zero. If "no", then what's the practical

     solution to making sure the MINIMAL compliment of

     additional hardware is powered up for longer than

     you have fuel to keep the engine running?



     Start with solving that problem first. What is your

     MINIMALIST plan and skill set for comfortable

     termination of flight and figure the energy budget

     for delivering to that plan?



     If any of those equipment items are necessary for

     keeping the engine running they should be powered from

     a battery bus. In other words, if you've got

     smoke in the cockpit, you should be able to

     turn the master switch OFF and STILL continue

     to airport of intended destination.



     After conducting this exercise, then figure out

     how many more electro-whizzies you'd like to

     have running, not for necessity but for convenience.

     Any airplane can be successfully operated to a

     comfortable arrival with ZERO engine instrumentation

     . . . if you want to take the time to learn how

     to do it. An airplane can be successfully navigated

     with ZERO panel mounted nav-aids. Communication is

     a driving consideration only during the approach to

     landing phase and this can be done with a hand-held.



     After figuring out how you will achieve this level

     of confidence and competence with the manner in which

     you intend to use your airplane, then decide what

     your dollar, weight and volume budget is for adding

     more "stuff".



     This exercise goes to two important points. Only

     a tiny fraction of unhappy days in the cockpit have

     roots in electrical system failures. The vast majority

     of unhappy days in the cockpit have roots in poor

     piloting skills usually combined with poor decision

     making processes in dealing with what should be

     a no-big deal failure.



     If things didn't break on airplanes, FBO's would be

     out of business. Only YOU can make sure the majority

     if not all of your failures are a maintenance event

     as opposed to an emergency arising from lack of

     skill/planning.



     After this thought exercise you are now properly informed

     to carry out a load analysis that will drive architecture,

     weight, system complexity, and cost of ownership.

     The short review for all the above is, "Please disabuse

     yourself of the notion that backups to backups is

     any sort of replacement for understanding your machine,

     it's limitations and your own limitations. Tony Levier

     in a '60 model C-172 is a lot less likely to suffer

     a bad day in the cockpit than most of today's pilots

     buying a Malibu or A-36 with all the goodies.



     Some of my most enjoyable cross countries were conducted

     in the J-3 mode. Go down low, get out the maps, punch

     up a destination on the $100 hand held GPS and shut all

     the rest of that stuff off. If you can do it for fun, you

     can do it when conditions demand it.

   Bob . . .

Mike Koehn

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

What fun. Thanks to everyone who replied to this first post, especially Bob for his insight on how I aught to be thinking about the big picture. Z-13/8 seems like the right starting point. Great book. Found more spread sheet info in the archives as well so I am looking forward to a first pass at the (non?) problem. With an all electric airplane in mind and integral battery backups as part of the equipment design (skyView and D-10) there appears to be plenty of power redundancy for the airplane's meager mission and then some, at least on the back of the envelope.



Fly safe,



Mike

_________________
"Testing is what we do when we don't know what we are doing"
Dr. Wernher von Braun

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: Load Analysis Spread Sheet

At 12:25 PM 7/21/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



  . . . there appears to be plenty of power redundancy for the 

 airplane's meager mission and then some, at least on the back of the envelope.


	


     Good words to hear! Keep us in the loop so we

     can help you add your project to the fleet of

     the most efficient and affordable airplanes

     to have ever flown.



     You might just do a 'back of the envelope' dump

     to the List of all the electrical loads you presently

     anticipate in no particular order of importance.

     Just everything that spins, lights up, gets warm

     or makes noises . . . and blows fuses when having

     a bad day . . .



     Then let's 'shuffle the deck' here on the List . . .





   Bob . . .

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