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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I did my second flight today. When I took off the winds were calm and down the runway.
When I landed there was a cross wind from the left.
What I noticed was that the plane had a left yaw tendency. I am not sure if this was from shuttle cocking, or from some asymmetry of the plane that needs correction.
Can anyone tell me if the 701 likes to point into the wind?
Thanks,John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
[quote][b]
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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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John, That is why we have that big rudder on the back. Happens to most planes.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/25/2011 2:21:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john.marzulli(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | I did my second flight today. When I took off the winds were calm and down the runway.
When I landed there was a cross wind from the left.
What I noticed was that the plane had a left yaw tendency. I am not sure if this was from shuttle cocking, or from some asymmetry of the plane that needs correction.
Can anyone tell me if the 701 likes to point into the wind?
Thanks,John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
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Flydad57(at)neo.rr.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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As stated, that's what the rudder is for. Get it aligned with the runway before you touch down. Rudder!
Bob Taylor
TigerCub N657RT
From: John Marzulli (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:19 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: 701's shuttle cock into the wind?
This was more than expected compared to any other aircraft I have flown.
I guess my worry is that if there was enough yaw then the nose wheel could be pointed far to the other side and cause a hard steering action when the nose wheel lands.
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:39 AM, <NYTerminat(at)aol.com (NYTerminat(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] John, That is why we have that big rudder on the back. Happens to most planes.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/25/2011 2:21:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john.marzulli(at)gmail.com (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: | I did my second flight today. When I took off the winds were calm and down the runway.
When I landed there was a cross wind from the left.
What I noticed was that the plane had a left yaw tendency. I am not sure if this was from shuttle cocking, or from some asymmetry of the plane that needs correction.
Can anyone tell me if the 701 likes to point into the wind?
Thanks,John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
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ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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Well now let's see. Correct the yaw with the rudder and level the wings with the ailerons.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
[quote][b]
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mksoucy(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I agree that nose wheel coulped solid to the rudder is a bent nose gear waiting to happen. I'm thinking of using springs for coupling mine.
Sent from my iPod
On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:19 AM, John Marzulli <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]This was more than expected compared to any other aircraft I have flown.
I guess my worry is that if there was enough yaw then the nose wheel could be pointed far to the other side and cause a hard steering action when the nose wheel lands.
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:39 AM, <[url=mailto:NYTerminat(at)aol.com]NYTerminat(at)aol.com (NYTerminat(at)aol.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | John, That is why we have that big rudder on the back. Happens to most planes.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/25/2011 2:21:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [url=mailto:john.marzulli(at)gmail.com]john.marzulli(at)gmail.com (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)[/url] writes:
| Quote: | I did my second flight today. When I took off the winds were calm and down the runway.
When I landed there was a cross wind from the left.
What I noticed was that the plane had a left yaw tendency. I am not sure if this was from shuttle cocking, or from some asymmetry of the plane that needs correction.
Can anyone tell me if the 701 likes to point into the wind?
Thanks,John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
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[b]
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Dan Wilde
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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On 7/26/2011 1:02 AM, mksoucy(at)yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | I agree that nose wheel coulped solid to the rudder is a bent nose
gear waiting to happen. I'm thinking of using springs for coupling mine.
In my opinion, this not likely to be an issue unless you wheelbarrow
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your landing.
Dan Wilde
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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I agree
In a message dated 7/26/2011 4:36:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com>
On 7/26/2011 1:02 AM, mksoucy(at)yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | I agree that nose wheel coulped solid to the rudder is a bent nose
gear waiting to happen. I'm thinking of using springs for coupling mine.
In my opinion, this not likely to be an issue unless you wheelbarrow
|
your landing.
Dan ========================= Use utilities Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ===================================================
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[quote][b]
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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Dont worry, be happy. about 300 hrs in our 701 with lots of landings in all speed and direction of wind (within reason of course) and never had a problem... Fly it, know it, enjoy it... PLEASE build it as close as possible as in the plans! Yes, is Experimental I know...
Gary.
From: "mksoucy(at)yahoo.com" <mksoucy(at)yahoo.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701's shuttle cock into the wind?
I agree that nose wheel coulped solid to the rudder is a bent nose gear waiting to happen. I'm thinking of using springs for coupling mine.
Sent from my iPod
On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:19 AM, John Marzulli <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] This was more than expected compared to any other aircraft I have flown.
I guess my worry is that if there was enough yaw then the nose wheel could be pointed far to the other side and cause a hard steering action when the nose wheel lands.
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:39 AM, <[url=mailto:NYTerminat(at)aol.com]NYTerminat(at)aol.com (NYTerminat(at)aol.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | John, That is why we have that big rudder on the back. Happens to most planes.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/25/2011 2:21:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [url=mailto:john.marzulli(at)gmail.com]john.marzulli(at)gmail.com (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)[/url] writes:
| Quote: | I did my second flight today. When I took off the winds were calm and down the runway.
When I landed there was a cross wind from the left.
What I noticed was that the plane had a left yaw tendency. I am not sure if this was from shuttle cocking, or from some asymmetry of the plane that needs correction.
Can anyone tell me if the 701 likes to point into the wind?
Thanks,John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
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ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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Keep the nose wheel off the ground as long as possible, just like the airliners.
I've found that my 701 wants to blow across the runway once on the ground, I think because of the large the side surface. The plane is very easy to cross control to keep it pointed straight down the runway on landing though.
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Ron Lee
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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John, I realize this response is a little late but after reading a few wise crack answers I figured I would give a little more explanation. The 701 has a little different feel to the rudder than other planes I've flown. I have over 70 hours on mine now and the rudder feel has become second nature to me. It will loosen up a bit over time but really I think it is a matter of you becoming more familiar with the feel. You will get to the point where you know just how much rudder to apply and when during the transition from flight to rollout. The 701 is extremely capable of handling ham fisted pilots during landing. I have landed my 701 in 15 mph direct cross wind and had no major trouble. That is my comfort level but am sure that with practice, I would be able to handle more because of the planes capability.
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
Just home from flying my plane to Oshkosh, Wahoo!!!
Do Not Archive
From: John Marzulli (john.marzulli(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:19 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: 701's shuttle cock into the wind?
This was more than expected compared to any other aircraft I have flown.
I guess my worry is that if there was enough yaw then the nose wheel could be pointed far to the other side and cause a hard steering action when the nose wheel lands.
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
[quote][b]
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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for the kind reply. I was feeling a little "wiseassy" when I saw your comment about weather vaning. Sorry about that. I have flown the Zenith company demonstrator a couple of times and felt that there was plenty of rudder authority. You mentioned that the rudder will loosen up over time. What is causing it to be tight? I'm curious as I did not like the steel on aluminium bearing and have replaced it with a sintered bronze bushing so it has a very light feel now.
do not archive
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
[quote][b]
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I suspect the biggest culpert of stiffness in the rudder system is the large contact surface of the top and bottom nylon bearings against the nose wheel strut. I think that after a few hours of flying the bearings work themselves in a bit and free up the feel of the rudder.
Back when I only had about ten hours on the plane, I found that I would be flying along with the ball consistently out of center and it took a concious bump of the rudder pedal to re-center the ball. Now that I have about 75 hrs on the plane, I noticed during my trip home from Oshkosh that I no longer have any issue with the ball being uncentered. Is this because I'm more used to flying the 701 or because the nylon bearings have seated a bit making the assembly looser, who knows. I do know that I personally now have no rudder feel issues with my scratch built 701 that essentially has the nose strut assembly built to plans. For those considering making changes to their steering and rudder systems to give a more "natural feel", you might just need to give the factory setup some time and a little bit of grease.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 in NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
From: "JohnDRead(at)aol.com" <JohnDRead(at)aol.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 3:27:25 PM
Subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind?
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the kind reply. I was feeling a little "wiseassy" when I saw your comment about weather vaning. Sorry about that. I have flown the Zenith company demonstrator a couple of times and felt that there was plenty of rudder authority. You mentioned that the rudder will loosen up over time. What is causing it to be tight? I'm curious as I did not like the steel on aluminium bearing and have replaced it with a sintered bronze bushing so it has a very light feel now.
do not archive
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
[quote] [b]
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cscsail(at)gmavt.net
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I agree. I sprayed some Teflon lube around the nylon bearings, it not only took out some of the (new) stiffness but also eliminated the squeaking I would get taxing over bumpy turf.
Now with over 200 hrs. I can't think of a single thing (other than the 912 throttle linkage) that I would change or modify. I built the plane to the plans and it flies as advertised and in some respects better. I've also landed with direct crosswind of 15k or so with no problem ---keep you feet moving and as has been said previously hold the nose off the ground. I often taxi down the runway with the nose wheel in the air, it's fun and a good exercise that may improve your lands.
Gordon
[quote] ---
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sonar1@cox.net
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 55
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: 701's shuttle cock into the wind? |
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I have found that landing in various winds is no problem, but after landing there is a definite tendency to weathervane.
I did a forced landing in a cottonfield several years ago in a 45 knot wind (blocked fuel filter). The farmer came out, and offered to tow it to the barn - the road being exactly across the wind.. We hung two batteries on the prop to hold the nosewheel on, had a farmworker hanging under the upwind wing, and a farmworker upwind on a rope tied to the tail, two of us in the seats, and were being towed behind a truck. Twice in a quarter mile, it got away from us, weathercocking into the wind.
What I learned was to not fly a 701 in a 45 knot wind.............Fred
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