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Ozarkflyer

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Mtn. View, AR

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:36 am Post subject: Engine out

Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

in 30 + years of GA flying I have never experienced an engine failure in a Continental or Lycoming Engine .

The 6 Key Reasons for Rotax 503 Sudden Engine Stoppage: 

1.	Fuel Filter Clogged 

2.	Alcohol in Gasoline 

3.	Old Fuel 

4.	Inadvertent Mixture Leaning at Idle 

5.	Engine Warm Up and Shock Cooling 

6.	Air Filter Clogged

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:09 am Post subject: Engine out

I've never had an engine-out, but I've spent many flights practicing dead-sticks. Find a familiar field, cut the engine, and practice. I've also practiced restarts; my pull-cord was accessible from the cockpit.

 

During a dead-stick it is critical that you fly the plane onto the ground. No three-point attempts, no flaring, until the last foot or two or three, when you're in ground effect and the bump, if any, will be minimal.

 

And as others have said... don't think; just do. 

 

Phil H.

Twinstar + Rotax 503, 1989



--- On Mon, 8/8/11, Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com>

Subject: Engine out

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 11:36 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com (lragan(at)hotmail.com)>



Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922





http://www.======================





	
 [quote][b]

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: Engine out

I had so far about 8 of them. Only one in a real "engine" a licensed Rolls Royce no less, Continental O-200 over at Caanes France back in the 80's the motor was about 900 hrs past TBO so should not have been a surprise for me. I was a low time pilot and the Riems Cessna -150 I was flying was my first airplane, I it bought off of an Aero Club in Shwabich Hall Germany. Didn't know anything about TBO's or cared just wanted to go fly. Got educated real quick about the mechanicals.



The other ones were in Ultralights, most were in a Brigs and Stratton direct drive motors, in fact it became routine to have one or both of those little things conk out, so I never ventured away from the airport. I had an engine out a couple of years ago in a Cuyana 430 due to primer pump break admitting air into the system. All in all no injuries or damage.

I think statistically speaking I should not have another engine failure in the next 300 years or so, or conversely a claim can be made that due to my luck or lack of it,,,, .



Ron (at)  KFHU



================================

---- Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com> wrote: 



=============




Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922



--

kugelair.com

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: Engine out

Larry,



  Yes, a friend and I were departing in his friend's Cherokee, on our way to Golden West Airshow.  The Cherokee was just out of annual the day before, and we didn't notice that one of the quick-drain fuel checkers was cocked open (but the fuel selector was shut off, so we didn't know).  When he turned on the fuel supply, sitting in the plane, we didn't see the fuel pouring out the cocked open quick-drain.



  We taxi'ed out to the run-up area, throttled up to 1700, did the mag checks, etc, and thought we were 'good to go'.  (partial engine run-up was only enough suction to HALT the fuel drainage, not suck up air from the open drain valve)



  Upon lining up for departure and going full throttle, we didn't realize at that point we had plenty of engine suction to now start sucking in air into that open quick-drain.  We managed to get airborne, maybe about 150' up, and climbing.  At this point, about 60% of the runway is behind us.   All of a sudden, that great big air bubble trailing the fuel from the strainer, which was now empty, caused the engine to go into "pure idle".   The throttle had zero effect.  The engine did not die, it just went to idle, providing no power.



  Immediately, after looking at each with that "WTH??" look on our faces, he lowered the nose to land it with what little runway was left.  We came to stop pretty close to the end of the runway.  The engine never did die, it was still idling, and had enough power to taxi back to the hangar....leaving a trail of still dripping fuel all the way.



  Once he pulled up to the hangar, and shut the engine off, we jumped out to see what was wrong.   There it was, a line of fuel pouring out of the quick-drain valve, under the engine cowling.  I bent down to see why we had fuel pouring out from under the engine, and there it was!!  The drain valve plunger was cock-eyed.  A simple plunge in, and it dropped back in place correctly, stopping the fuel flow.



  FIVE seconds.   FIVE MEASLY LITTLE SECONDS, and Dennis and I would have been landing in a shopping center....guaranteed!!    (with a drain valve stuck open, pouring out fuel)



  Moral;  Make sure you have checked and secured ALL fuel drainage points.



Mike Welch

lucky to have lived to tell the story!





On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: Engine out

At 11:36 AM 8/8/2011, Ozarkflyer wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>



 Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it. 	


 Two in a certified engine (Contentinental A-65 in a Taylorcraft):  One due to contaminated fuel, and one due to the engine swallowing a valve seat on takeoff.  Got it down without damage in both cases.



 Three with the Cuyuna engine in my UltraStar:  One I believe to have been carburetor ice, two were apparently a bad carburetor float needle causing the engine to flood.  In the first two the engine quit but I was able to restart; in the third it never actually quit but was delivering very little power; just as I was getting committed to an off airport landing the power came back.  



 Several more in PPGs, but that hardly counts...



 -Dana



 

 --

 Newton's Seventeenth Law of American Life:  For every action, there is an unequal and moronic overreaction.    

    [quote][b]

gliderx5

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 203

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: Engine out

I just had a loss of power, but not a total failure of my Rotax 503 Titan Tornado.  The issue was a loose fuel line.  Clamps solved the problem (my bad).  I had a fouled plug on an earlier 503 Kolb MKII a few years ago also.  And a local flyer had a failure on a MKIII because the impluse line to the fuel pump deteriorated. 

  

Malcolm Morrison



 

   

From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 11:36:33 AM

Subject: Engine out



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>



Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3489sp;                     &





 [quote][b]

donaho1(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: Engine out

I had a partial engine out on a Rotax 377, powered, Quicksilver MX in 

the late 80`s. I could not maintain level flight, but had enough 

power to choose a mowed hay field. The flapper valve in the fuel pump 

folded under itself, which cut my fuel flow in half. No damage upon 

landing. Also had a 210 Solo seize on a Paraplane in 1983. With one 

engine still running I was able to make it to a grass field in front 

of my house. (about five miles from Numidia airport, from whenst I 

had come) And pushed it home. That was caused by the carburetor 

needle settings changing while in flight, due to vibration. When I 

called the people at Paraplane, they said that wasn`t possible. 

However, about a month later they sent a letter, telling everyone, to 

zip tie the needles together so they didn`t move in flight. Go 

figure! Lanny N598LF

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: Engine out

suffered an engine-out failure?>>



Not an engine failure but the same effect.



I had the toothed drive band which connected the engine to the prop in my 

Challenger shed its teeth on two occasions.

The unloaded engine screaming its head off until I killed it  and the prop 

windmilling uselessly.

Put her down, borrowed some tools from the farmer whose land I was on, 

replaced the belt and flew home.



Pat

radiobluebook(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: Engine out

I have had five unplanned landings, but none in a Kolb. All were with the same Rotax 277 and three were heat related due to improper jetting. Fourth was pilot error because I was showing off and didn't do a thorough preflight. (Air in the fuel line.) The fifth time was not a full engine out, but it would not develope more than 4000 rpms in the air. I'm still don't know the cause of that one. It is in dry storage and I've lost interest in the project. 

 

Why do you ask?

  [quote][b]

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: Engine out

I don't think you mean GA aircraft, but I've had two. One Continental, one Lycoming. Both in  Cessna 170.

Russ K



On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: Engine out

Mike

When/if we ever meet, please shake my hand. Mebbe some of your luck will rub off!

Fair winds,

Russ K

On Aug 8, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Michael Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Larry,

  Yes, a friend and I were departing in his friend's Cherokee, on our way to Golden West Airshow.  The Cherokee was just out of annual the day before, and we didn't notice that one of the quick-drain fuel checkers was cocked open (but the fuel selector was shut off, so we didn't know).  When he turned on the fuel supply, sitting in the plane, we didn't see the fuel pouring out the cocked open quick-drain.

  We taxi'ed out to the run-up area, throttled up to 1700, did the mag checks, etc, and thought we were 'good to go'.  (partial engine run-up was only enough suction to HALT the fuel drainage, not suck up air from the open drain valve)

  Upon lining up for departure and going full throttle, we didn't realize at that point we had plenty of engine suction to now start sucking in air into that open quick-drain.  We managed to get airborne, maybe about 150' up, and climbing.  At this point, about 60% of the runway is behind us.   All of a sudden, that great big air bubble trailing the fuel from the strainer, which was now empty, caused the engine to go into "pure idle".   The throttle had zero effect.  The engine did not die, it just went to idle, providing no power.

  Immediately, after looking at each with that "WTH??" look on our faces, he lowered the nose to land it with what little runway was left.  We came to stop pretty close to the end of the runway.  The engine never did die, it was still idling, and had enough power to taxi back to the hangar....leaving a trail of still dripping fuel all the way.

  Once he pulled up to the hangar, and shut the engine off, we jumped out to see what was wrong.   There it was, a line of fuel pouring out of the quick-drain valve, under the engine cowling.  I bent down to see why we had fuel pouring out from under the engine, and there it was!!  The drain valve plunger was cock-eyed.  A simple plunge in, and it dropped back in place correctly, stopping the fuel flow.

  FIVE seconds.   FIVE MEASLY LITTLE SECONDS, and Dennis and I would have been landing in a shopping center....guaranteed!!    (with a drain valve stuck open, pouring out fuel)

  Moral;  Make sure you have checked and secured ALL fuel drainage points.

 Mike Welch

 lucky to have lived to tell the story!

 On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote:

> 

> 

> Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Ozarkflyer

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Mtn. View, AR

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Engine out

Any type of a.c.

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Engine out

Russ,  



, I'd be proud to, but I don't know about the luck rubbing off stuff.  If I was

so lucky, how come I flew that ultralight into the dirt once?  Man, that hurt like....!!



Mike W

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike

 When/if we ever meet, please shake my hand. Mebbe some of your luck will rub off!

 Fair winds,

 Russ K


	




 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: Engine out

forgot to gas up?



heh heh heh

BB



On 8, Aug 2011, at 5:24 PM, russ kinne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I don't think you mean GA aircraft, but I've had two. One Continental, one Lycoming. Both in  Cessna 170.

 Russ K

 

 On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Engine out

FireFly

Thundering 447

Fuel Starvation

Take-Off

50ft. AGL

4,000 ft. of runway to go

Non-event...

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: Engine out

MikeThe fact you're still talking indicates luck for me!

Russ K

On Aug 8, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Mike Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Russ,  



, I'd be proud to, but I don't know about the luck rubbing off stuff.  If I was

so lucky, how come I flew that ultralight into the dirt once?  Man, that hurt like....!!



Mike W

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike

 When/if we ever meet, please shake my hand. Mebbe some of your luck will rub off!

 Fair winds,

 Russ K


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: Engine out

BB

No, I've got plenty of gas. Roommates sometimes have said too much.

Russ K

haw haw haw



On Aug 8, 2011, at 5:53 PM, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 forgot to gas up?

 

 heh heh heh

 BB

 

 On 8, Aug 2011, at 5:24 PM, russ kinne wrote:

 

> 

> 

> I don't think you mean GA aircraft, but I've had two. One Continental, one Lycoming. Both in  Cessna 170.

> Russ K

> 

> On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject: Engine out

I had one in a Vector with a 377 Rotax running fine  the clutch assembly failed internal Totaled plane in the woods 2nd one Throttle cable snaped on 447 Rotax running fine in a firestar on take off in a short strip Got it down but damaged one gear leg 3nd one 582 rotax running fine also in a Mk3 Classic the propeller failed in flight again in the woods and totaled airplane  

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: Engine out

At 08:36 AM 8/8/11 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What 

kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was 
	


just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


?,



One Rotax 447 engine seizure on wide open climb out, due to carbon build up 

below the rings even though I was using a super oil.  Turned 180 and made it 

back to with in 100 yards of the airport in a bean field.  Had at least two 

carburetor ice  induced power losses.  One while flying at altitude at very 

low power in humid conditions.  Limped five miles back to the airport in a 

low power glide.  Ice thawed out at lower altitude and I was able to make a 

normal landing.  The second time was on take off from a wet grass strip after 

a prolonged warm up in a long take off queue.  Lost full power at about 200 

feet.  Dropped the nose and kicked it around hard and landed down wind on the 

strip.



(1) Vibration damper ring on the Victor 1+ mount failed and dropped the ring 

off the flywheel and it wedged between the flywheel and flywheel cover.  I 

was flying the FireFly from southeast Missouri to Winchester, Indiana.  

Fortunately it happened on engine start up at Executive Airport north of 

Indianapolis. Removed damper ring, replaced flywheel cover, and continued 

running the engine without it. (2) Lost power after take off from 

Winchester, Indiana when the throttle cable became disconnected.  Engine 

dropped to idle.  Landed in a corn field behind a house next to a main road. 

Bent my first landing gear leg.  Removed the wings, placed them on my pickup 

and took them back to the hangar.  Tied the tail wheel up in the back of the 

pickup and towed the FireFly back. (3) While trying to land at Marion, 

Indiana fly in, I could not merge with traffic.  Crossed back over the 

runway and made a right hand pattern to land on the taxiway.  First attempt 

failed when a Varieze failed to pass by the first ramp and taxied slowly.  I 

could not get down behind him.  Initiated a go around at partial throttle.  

On the second attempt engine quit due to ice.  Bent right landing gear leg.  

Restarted engine taxied on up parked and enjoyed the fly in.  Later flew it 

back to Winchester with no problems. (4) While a mile inside Ohio at 3,000 

feet, the Victor 1+ ate a piston ring.  A pin in the piston ring that 

prevents the ring from rotating came out first and then the ring rotated 

until a free end started to fall into the port.  Finally it snagged and it 

pulled and chopped the ring in to bits and hammered the bits into little 

round balls that I found in the exhaust port.  Glide to two miles back into 

Indiana and then turned back to the east to land in a bean field close to a 

farm building site.  Repeated the same site to hangar process as before.



With both engines used Bing float carburetors and, I had multiple other 

landings with dead engine after reducing the throttle on final approach.  

All of them, I believe, were caused by ice.  About a week ago, I had the MZ 

34 with a pumper Tillotson carburetor quit on taxi in due to ice.  



If you are going to fly with a two cycle engine, you must always assume 

that the engine is going to quit upon landing.  None of these engines 

are supplied with carburetor heat or cockpit mixture controls.  The ATV 

and motorcycle engine manufacturers have recognized the problem and some 

have made provisions for the addition of electrical heaters to prevent 

ice build up around the low speed fuel flow orifices.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

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