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dalewhelan

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 105
Location: USA ARIZONA fountain hills

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Engine out

2 on final 

      Loose intake manifold

      Lean needle setting

1 on take off

       Main jet loose (Result of talking while working)

1 on cross country

       Old fuel line broke

_________________
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II, Luscombe 8A
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept

brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: Engine out

i have had eight total forced landings 

 1st cyuna 430 quick 1993 poorly ajusted throttle cable  2ed hirth 2706 cgs hawk factory plane spit a spark plug 3rd a year later burned up a piston in same plane at sun fun 4th a year later  the fly whell broke off a new hirth 270 something on the army hawk at sun fun. while training a pilot to fly the rear seat of a hornet his hirth chewed up a belt we landed after noting hi temps on take off but did not hurt the motor . a couple years later i ran out of gass becouse i lost track of time chassing hot air baloons at a  remax festival. then some 12  years later just last month i burned up a rod in a 19 year 582 and landed nicely in a been field,  thats only one rotax engine failure in over 700 hrs the other forced landing was due to weather in a quick total damage to aircraft do to forced  landings    less than$100 cost to repair motor,s in the thousands,   

 

  

 Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker 

Michigan Sport Pilot Repair 

LSRM-A, PPC, WS

Great Sails - Sailmaker 

for Ultralight & Light Sport

(989)513-3022



   

From: Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 11:36 AM

Subject: Engine out



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com (lragan(at)hotmail.com)>



Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if  you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

http://w=======================

 [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: Engine out

Four total, first one was a Zenoah G25 in a Kasperwing 180B. Engine spit out the plug in the second spark plug hole. Even though I was right over the runway at about 30 feet, I couldn't find it. Screwed a spark plug into the hole and continued flying.  Second, fuel valve vibrated closed, same aircraft. Landed in a muddy field just west of Arlington. Dragged the airplane over to a muddy road, used a shoe lace to tie the valve open. Had to do a foot launch take off until the plane picked me up (call it a waddling launch) to keep the wheels from sticking in the mud.

 Third, Kolb Mk IIIC with 582. Primer pump valve failed just after take off. Landed, non event.

Fourth, Bad day at Black Rock.

Rick Girard



On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com (brubakermal(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   i have had eight total forced landings 

 1st cyuna 430 quick 1993 poorly ajusted throttle cable  2ed hirth 2706 cgs hawk factory plane spit a spark plug 3rd a year later burned up a piston in same plane at sun fun 4th a year later  the fly whell broke off a new hirth 270 something on the army hawk at sun fun. while training a pilot to fly the rear seat of a hornet his hirth chewed up a belt we landed after noting hi temps on take off but did not hurt the motor . a couple years later i ran out of gass becouse i lost track of time chassing hot air baloons at a  remax festival. then some 12  years later just last month i burned up a rod in a 19 year 582 and landed nicely in a been field,  thats only one rotax engine failure in over 700 hrs the other forced landing was due to weather in a quick total damage to aircraft do to forced  landings    less than$100 cost to repair motor,s in the thousands,   

 

  

 Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker 

Michigan Sport Pilot Repair 

LSRM-A, PPC, WS

Great Sails - Sailmaker 

for Ultralight & Light Sport

[url=tel:%28989%29513-3022](989)513-3022[/url]

 

    

From: Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com (lragan(at)hotmail.com)>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

 Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 11:36 AM

Subject: Kolb-List: Engine out



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com (lragan(at)hotmail.com)>

 

Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if  you wish, but I was just trying to get an idea of how many have experienced it.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

 



http://w=======================

  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Engine out

May 30, 1980, Easy Riser, Mac 101, motor mounts bolts failed, made it to the home strip before the engine fell off. (!)

August 30, 1980, Easy Riser, Mac 101, exhaust bolts failed, landed in a peanut field, no damage, trailered home. (That sucker had some SERIOUS vibration problems)

Nov 6, 1984, Maxair Hummer, Rotax 277, lead balls formed on spark plug, landed in a cow pasture w/o incident, replaced the plug & flew it home

1985, Maxair Hummer, Rotax 277, installed dual ignition, coil failed, ignition problems, landed at a driving range, repaired it, flew it home

March 20, 1994, Maxair Hummer, Rotax 277, recoil starter spring failed, pull cable came loose and destroyed the fan blade, engine continued running, flew to nearest airport. Next day removed the fan and shroud and flew it home with free air, ran fine

October 25, 1996, Kolb MKIII, Rotax 532, fuel pickup in the tank failed, landed w/o incident in a pasture field, fixed it flew it home

Jan 2002, Kolb MKIII, 532, spun the rotary valve gear on the crank, rotary valve went out of time, partial power, landed w/o incident at the strip I took off from. Borrowed another 532 and flew it home a week later

July 15, 2003, Kolb MKIII, Rotax 582, oil line to injection pump got blocked, seized, landed w/o incident at R/C plane strip, trailered home

July 5, 2007, Kolb MKIII, 582, main jet backed out, landed in a pasture w/o incident, replaced jet, flew it out.



Fly it like you'll need to land it within the next 90 seconds and you'll never have any problems you can't handle. Duane Cole made a video extolling that exact same philosophy. If it worked for Duane, it's good enough for me.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: Engine out

I've had two.  First was in my tricycle Chicken Hawk w/277 Rotax     when the wings folded at about 1200' AGL (sans 'chute) and one of     the struts that went from the trailing edge of the wings to the tail     section tore free went thru the prop.  The engine out was the least     of my problems that afternoon.  Second was when the 430 Cuyuna in my     UltraStar shut off.  Got to the athletic fields of a middle school     OK, but didn't realize the track was built out level with a very     steep grade prior.  Got too low attempting to roll it out before     hitting the side of the bleachers, and crunched the top of the grade     bending up the cage and buckling the boom tube.  Very little air     time and no dead stick landing practice back then.

     

     Dave Kulp

     Bethlehem PA

     FireFly 11DMK

     

     [quote][b]



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[*]	LIST ([email]kolb-list(at)matronics.com?subject=Re:%20Kolb-List:%20Engine%20out[/email]) Reply to LIST Regarding this Message

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Time: 08:39:02 AM PST USSubject: Engine outFrom: "Ozarkflyer" &

 

lt;lragan(at)hotmail.com (lragan(at)hotmail.com)>      

      

      Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure?  What kind

      of aircraft and engine?  Expand on your reply if you wish, but I was just trying

      to get an idea of how many have experienced it.

      

      

      Read this topic online here:

      

      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348922#348922

      

      [/b][/b][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: Engine out

<<Ephesians 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that 

not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should 

boast.>>



Richard,



thats not a signature, thats a posting.  Knock it off please. You are on the 

wrong  list



Pat.



Pat

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  <<Ephesians>>



Richard,



thats not a signature, thats a posting.  Knock it off please. You are on the 

wrong  list



Pat.



Pat 	




I second that ! Please grow -up !

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

David d.

Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Fitzgerald Ga.

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

This has been a very interesting thread.   However it was previously posted and I quote

The 6 Key Reasons for Rotax 503 Sudden Engine Stoppage:

1. Fuel Filter Clogged

2. Alcohol in Gasoline

3. Old Fuel

4. Inadvertent Mixture Leaning at Idle

5. Engine Warm Up and Shock Cooling

6. Air Filter Clogged



I believe all poster made no mention of the above causes. Although several made mention of mixture screws moving??



Puzzled?

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  <<Ephesians>>

Richard,



thats not a signature, thats a posting.  Knock it off please. You are on the 

wrong  list

Pat.

Pat 	




Pat, you had nothing to say when Mic put his atheism in his signature. Looks to me like your bias is evident.



Meanwhile, thank you Dennis Thate for changing your signature to something non-offensive. And Pat - since the Word of God offends you, I will delete it from my signature.



Unless - there are more postings by people with something in their signature that ridicules believers, in which case I will once again start adding Scripture to my signature.  If you think that people of faith are supposed to sit meekly by while being gratuitously insulted, you are living in a dream world.  Police the scoffers first rather than the believers, get the ones who started it to knock it off, and then you won't have any thing to complain about.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: Engine out

AMEN!

On Aug 9, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote:

> 

> 

> Richard,

> 

> thats not a signature, thats a posting.  Knock it off please. You are on the 

> wrong  list

> 

> Pat.

> 

> Pat

 I second that ! Please grow -up !

 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern

 Friends for Fun, Safety and Knowledge, A not-for-profit, non-religious and non-political organization.

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349038#349038

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: Engine out

I saw this the first time and added the list to my future checklist/inspection instructions. A big thanks! - Phil H.



--- On Tue, 8/9/11, SS568 <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: SS568 <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>

Subject: Re: Engine out

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 12:56 PM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com (david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com)>



This has been a very interesting thread.   However it was previously posted and I quote

The 6 Key Reasons for Rotax 503 Sudden Engine Stoppage:

1. Fuel Filter Clogged

2. Alcohol in Gasoline

3. Old Fuel

4. Inadvertent Mixture Leaning at Idle

5. Engine Warm Up and Shock Cooling

6. Air Filter Clogged



I believe all poster made no mention of the above causes. Although several made mention of mixture screws moving??



Puzzled? 





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349040#34904om/Navigator?Kolb-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?              - MATRONICS WEB FORUM;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========





	
 [quote][b]

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: Engine out

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have had four forced landings. Three in a Weedhopper. One was prop bolts that got loose from temp/humidity changes. That Chotia 460 ran real smooth with no prop. 	
 



One was in my Kolb with a old version of Valley redrive. The redrive mount cracked causing the belts to fall off. 800 miles to Oshkosh and back and I got to about 8 miles from my home strip when it let go. They told me it wasn't designed for anything but a wood prop. The new version is  three times stronger were I cracked it. The landing was uneventful in a bean field. The landing roll was only about two feet after the tail snagged a row of beans. I had over revved the engine before landing but nothing else was damaged. 

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



  [quote][b]

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: Engine out

That should have read they told me "up front" that it wasn't designed for anything but a wood prop.



On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote] 	  Quote: 	
		   I have had four forced landings. Three in a Weedhopper. One was prop bolts that got loose from temp/humidity changes. That Chotia 460 ran real smooth with no prop. 	
 



One was in my Kolb with a old version of Valley redrive. The redrive mount cracked causing the belts to fall off. 800 miles to Oshkosh and back and I got to about 8 miles from my home strip when it let go. They told me it wasn't designed for anything but a wood prop. The new version is  three times stronger were I cracked it. The landing was uneventful in a bean field. The landing roll was only about two feet after the tail snagged a row of beans. I had over revved the engine before landing but nothing else was damaged. 

  



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



 [b]

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thank the Lord in 44 years of flying GA aircraft I have never experienced an engine failure. 	




"Good Grief Charlie Brown" you added something 'religious' into your post ! ! !



Guy's n Gal's What's the big deal ? Can you really expect people to eliminate part of there life's experiences when posting ? It would have to be a ban on all post script notes and not just related to one particular subject (which you might call 'religion' but I call 'relationship'). And I for one, enjoy these little post scripts, reflective of all aspects of life. Regardless of who they come from. I agree with some, I disagree with others, but I enjoy them all. Some time back I even wrote a small note off list to a Kolb List member with thanks for adding them. It adds to my day.  Puts a smile on my face. You don't have to read them if you don't want to.



Come on now. Lets have a bit of tolerance on this. 



David.



Do not achieve.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:16 am Post subject: Engine out

when the wings folded at about 1200' AGL >>

  

 Dave,

  

 I am sure that there are many on the list who would  like to hear that story.

  

 Congratulations on still being here.

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: Engine out

"Ozarkflyer" asked:  << how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure? >>

 

Kolb Friends –

 

I’ve had a Lycoming O-290 fail on my twice, resulting in off-airport landings in a TriPacer I used to own in the 1990’s.  One was due to vapor lock while climbing over a mountain range in Arizona, heavily loaded on a hot (104 degrees F) June day.  (Many GA purists argue that vapor lock was not possible, but the temps in the engine compartment were extreme that day, and the TriPacer has no fuel pump – only gravity feed.  But I’m sticking to my vapor lock theory.)  Had to land in a mountain pasture.  Second occasion was a failed magneto on the same airplane, about a year later.  Partial power, not enough to maintain level flight for return to the airport.  Landed in a plowed field.

 

It was after those two occasions that I realized that this 1953 airplane, even with its compulsory annual inspections, was still a 40-year-old machine (in the 1990s) and things could break or go wrong anytime.  That’s when I decided to sell the old girl and build my own airplane (my Mark-3) that would have ALL NEW hardware, especially the engine.  Glad I made the switch.  My 912-powered Kolb has never (knock on wood) left me stranded due to an engine mechanical failure.

 

A couple of years ago, I had a throttle cable break on my Kolb.  The soldered cable ferrule pulled out.  (Story is in the archives – afterward, I employed Richard Pike’s solution of fraying the cable strands and soldering in a blob of solder, which will never let loose again!)  But this was not really an “engine failure.”  Fortunately, the 912 goes to full throttle with a broken throttle cable, so it was a non-event to fly back to the airport, shut down the engine on downwind, and complete a dead-stick landing.

 

Dennis Kirby

Mark-III, 912ul

Sandia Park, NM

do not archive

 [quote][b]

Ozarkflyer

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Mtn. View, AR

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Engine out

Thanks for all of the great input and personal experiences.  I'm just trying to find out things others have experienced and hoping to have enough sense to check for those obvious things that could cause a problem.  Even the not-so-obvious things.   My experience has been limited to C-150/52, C-172 and C-182 so you can see my curiosity regarding other types of ac and engines.  I have no experience with tail-draggers or stick controls but hopefully that issue will be resolved within the next couple of months.  



The value of practicing engine out procedures seems to be in-valuable but my experience is that it is never practiced during a BFR.  Even through 3 CFI's who have given me the BFR, so I just do it on my own. 

  

I too would like to hear about the "wings folding at 1200'. 



Larry Ragan

Mountain View, AR

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: Engine out

David:  "Amen!" or "Right on!"  (depending on your point of view)



Most religions implore tolerance... most philosophies, too.  And the one Great Rule (the Golden Rule) is all about tolerance.  In my humble opinion, anyone that isn't tolerant of others beliefs is a fanatic, and we all know what fanatics are capable of doing.

 



Just put a nice long dashed line at the top of your signature (which implies the end of the message, what follows isn't part of the message) and say whatever you like.  Everyone else can see the dashed line and decide whether they will read your signature or not.  If I had a signature, I'm sure I'd use the Marx Brothers which, I'm sure, would match most of the absurdities of the world.

 



So, let's move on and get back to Kolb topics, please.

Thank you!

  -- Robert

Do achieve, but do not archive.  



 



On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 3:34 AM, David Lucas <d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com (d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lucas" <d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com (d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 

 > Thank the Lord in 44 years of flying GA aircraft I have never experienced an engine failure.

 

 

 "Good Grief Charlie Brown" you added something 'religious' into your post ! ! !

 

 Guy's n Gal's What's the big deal ? Can you really expect people to eliminate part of there life's experiences when posting ? It would have to be a ban on all post script notes and not just related to one particular subject (which you might call 'religion' but I call 'relationship'). And I for one, enjoy these little post scripts, reflective of all aspects of life. Regardless of who they come from. I agree with some, I disagree with others, but I enjoy them all. Some time back I even wrote a small note off list to a Kolb List member with thanks for adding them. It adds to my day.  Puts a smile on my face. You don't have to read them if you don't want to.

  

 Come on now. Lets have a bit of tolerance on this.

 

 David.

 

 Do not achieve.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349095#349095

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: Engine out

My suggestion in any situation where the airplane is still flyable is to fly the airplane. Or another way of saying it if you lost a motor you have to land it where you can in whatever glide radius from where you are when you discover you can no longer maintain altitude. Once you are in that mode you sorta do all the proper normal things that you have to do in the time that you have. It is actually not bad, because any decision you make is the last decision you have to make on that item so as things progress you really have less and less to deal with till you get to just the process of landing at the spot you already picked out before.  

Having done a few of those emergency landings I can safely say that I can't really remember doing much more than estimating my approach to the landing spot and the speed I need, so not to be too fast or slow, I guess playing around in the pattern by idling the motor at any point relative to the strip and trying to make a landing is a good practice and also fun.



Back in the 82nd the Jump Masters used to always say "keep a sharp lookout during decent" they didn't want us walking on each other's canopy, but the same thing can be applied to anything we do in the airplane.



Ron (at) KFHU



===============

---- Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com> wrote: 



=============




Thanks for all of the great input and personal experiences.  I'm just trying to find out things others have experienced and hoping to have enough sense to check for those obvious things that could cause a problem.  Even the not-so-obvious things.   My experience has been limited to C-150/52, C-172 and C-182 so you can see my curiosity regarding other types of ac and engines.  I have no experience with tail-draggers or stick controls but hopefully that issue will be resolved within the next couple of months.  



The value of practicing engine out procedures seems to be in-valuable but my experience is that it is never practiced during a BFR.  Even through 3 CFI's who have given me the BFR, so I just do it on my own. 

  

I too would like to hear about the "wings folding at 1200'. 



Larry Ragan

Mountain View, AR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349112#349112



--

kugelair.com

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:02 am Post subject: Engine out

That works for me. At the end of the day we are all here because we enrichen 

our lives { and hopefully those that are close to us }by flying our Kolb's 

and other brands of flying machines. I for one like the personal exchanges 

and as long as I am free to agree or disagree as I see fit ,then I sleep 

happy. There is a great bunch of people on this list , we can all learn from 

each other . We do not necessarily have to agree with each other on all 

subjects. Would become a really boring site if we did. Fair winds and safe 

flying to all.

This part of the world is coming into spring so things are lookin good . 

Hope to get out and do a bit more flying as the weather improves .



Downunder

KolbMK111

503

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