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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:14 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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Jon,
Why don't you just call up Tom Johnson (Airpower Insurance) and ask him?
Roger Baker
On Aug 12, 2011, at 11:10 AM, Jon Boede wrote:
[quote]During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
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delfin_driver(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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It is my understanding that Romania cadets have about 30-40 hours total time in the Yak, before transitioning to the next level aircraft. US insurance company may want several hundred hours, but with "qualified" instruction I would think that 60 hours to solo would be plenty.
From: Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
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dabear(at)devere.us
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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Ooooh This should be an interesting discussion… I’ll get the popcorn out…
MNSHO is….
So I would recommend complete checkout in aircraft and systems (10-20 hours including ground) and acro instruction (competent instructor) prior to ANY acro.
I’d recommend high performance/complex/retract sign off before or during initial instruction
No minimum hours TT or in complex….
The aircraft is a trainer, it isn’t difficult to fly, however the systems are complex and need to insure they understand them and can aviate ahead of the airplane. Prior experience in non-yak/CJ aircraft will not convert much.
I received my check out in the Yak-52 with 10 hours (non-CFI) from someone with lots of time in the yak. I had 150 TT and 10-15 hours complex/retract.
The real question for low time pilots in the CJ/Yak would be initial instruction in the aircraft AND how often they fly to stay current. <50 hours a year is really pushing the low side… I’d like to see lots of time over the first year to maintain current in the aircraft.
Insurance would probably cover the above recommendation without issue… the price may be higher than if you had a bunch of folks that all had 500+ TT with lots of complex/retract time. Maybe you ask the lower time person/people to pay the delta, but I still think it would be less than $900 (delta) a year than someone with lots of time.
Cost of liability would be in the 180-300 range….
Cost of hull would be in the 1500-2500 range depending on hull value.
My original insurance quote (first year) was for around $2900 (but that was for a yak-52 at 50k hull value and a 150 hour TT pilot back in 1997) Hull value for the CJ would be higher
I have a high hull value but reasonable rates due to 1300 hours in yaks/CJs so I may be off.
Randy DeVere
MNSHO = My Not So Humble Opinion
"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
---Eleanor Roosevelt
Quantico,VA 1945
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:11 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
[quote][b]
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gill.g(at)gpimail.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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I don’t know about the YAK 52 of but I started flying my CJ solo with 50 hours in a 172 and 10 hours dual in the CJ which was the most important time, plus learning the systems. My insurance company didn’t have a problem with me, rates were reasonable.
Gill
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:11 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
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01234567
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thomasg(at)infosysnetwork
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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I flew my CJ for the first time almost 4 months ago.
Insurance company required 10 hours of dual training before solo.
I had 575 total time with 3 hrs in complex.
Insurance for a $80k value was:
Liability - $297
Hull - $1,840
At the end of 10hrs, I felt comfortable with the basics but was still unfamiliar with a lot of the systems. I flew it home then with the primer up J
I would say it took me a good 25hrs to start feeling comfortable in it. Heck, I have 80 hrs in it now and still learn something about it every time I fly.
I don’t know if I would agree with your requirement of 50 hrs hp/complex. I didn’t have it and it was easy to learn with the CJ.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:11 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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First off we keep our flight time requirement ideas to ourselves.
If u suggest a number, they assume that to be the starting point.
I pay 1500 and that includes fly-by at air shows. $65k hull.
Canon ins offers discounts on warbird insurance if u complete certain training.
Please don't do us any favors and open that box.
If you feel u must start this, talk to EAA, AOPA, RPA and get info from them first.
They have all been down that road.
Bill
On Aug 12, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Thomas Geoghegan <thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com (thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I flew my CJ for the first time almost 4 months ago.
Insurance company required 10 hours of dual training before solo.
I had 575 total time with 3 hrs in complex.
Insurance for a $80k value was:
Liability - $297
Hull - $1,840
At the end of 10hrs, I felt comfortable with the basics but was still unfamiliar with a lot of the systems. I flew it home then with the primer up J
I would say it took me a good 25hrs to start feeling comfortable in it. Heck, I have 80 hrs in it now and still learn something about it every time I fly.
I don’t know if I would agree with your requirement of 50 hrs hp/complex. I didn’t have it and it was easy to learn with the CJ.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:11 PM
To: [url=mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
http://forums.matronics.com<; - List Contribution Web Site -http://www.matronics.com/contribution<====================
[b]
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
|
I have no idea what an insurance company would say but I know what *I* would suggest: 20 hours total time. The CJ6A is such a classically-flying aircraft I would gladly use it to instruct in primary flight training if I could. I learned to fly in a C-182 and I think that the CJ6A would be even easier to learn to fly. Other than having a few more knobs to push/pull, it is no more difficult to fly than a mid-range Cessna. It just means that one spends a bit more time on cockpit procedures, primarily in ground school but of course in the pattern as well.
I taught my own son to fly in our Piper Clipper which was *WAAAAAY* more difficult than the CJ6A to fly.
And consider that the Chinese teach primary flight training in it. Our own military has used a variation of the T34 for 50 years. No reason we couldn't do the same thing.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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It's like getting your private pilots lic. It basically gives u the privilege of learning to really fly.
So reading that you started to feel comfy after 25 shouldn't be interpreted as we need dual for 25 hrs.
The airplanes are easy to fly so get your basic check out, and set your limits," clear and a million"
Go have fun and figure it out. When u r ready come back for some advanced training. 10 hrs is a lot of time.
With the right instruction, u can do it!
[quote]
On Aug 12, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Thomas Geoghegan <[url=mailto:thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com]thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com (thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
I flew my CJ for the first time almost 4 months ago.
Insurance company required 10 hours of dual training before solo.
I had 575 total time with 3 hrs in complex.
Insurance for a $80k value was:
Liability - $297
Hull - $1,840
At the end of 10hrs, I felt comfortable with the basics but was still unfamiliar with a lot of the systems. I flew it home then with the primer up J
I would say it took me a good 25hrs to start feeling comfortable in it. Heck, I have 80 hrs in it now and still learn something about it every time I fly.
I don’t know if I would agree with your requirement of 50 hrs hp/complex. I didn’t have it and it was easy to learn with the CJ.
From: [url=mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:11 PM
To: (yak-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
http://forums.matronics.com<; - List Contribution Web Site -http://www.matronics.com/contribution<====================
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ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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The CJ-6A is a robust and remarkably easy airplane to fly. Did a ferry flight from northern California to Arizona after less than one hour of formal instruction with an instructor who accompanied me in the aft cockpit. Love this airplane!
On Aug 12, 2011, at 6:24 PM, Bill Geipel wrote:
[quote]It's like getting your private pilots lic. It basically gives u the privilege of learning to really fly.
So reading that you started to feel comfy after 25 shouldn't be interpreted as we need dual for 25 hrs.
The airplanes are easy to fly so get your basic check out, and set your limits," clear and a million"
Go have fun and figure it out. When u r ready come back for some advanced training. 10 hrs is a lot of time.
With the right instruction, u can do it!
| Quote: |
On Aug 12, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Thomas Geoghegan < (thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com)thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com (thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I flew my CJ for the first time almost 4 months ago.
Insurance company required 10 hours of dual training before solo.
I had 575 total time with 3 hrs in complex.
Insurance for a $80k value was:
Liability - $297
Hull - $1,840
At the end of 10hrs, I felt comfortable with the basics but was still unfamiliar with a lot of the systems. I flew it home then with the primer up J
I would say it took me a good 25hrs to start feeling comfortable in it. Heck, I have 80 hrs in it now and still learn something about it every time I fly.
I don’t know if I would agree with your requirement of 50 hrs hp/complex. I didn’t have it and it was easy to learn with the CJ.
From: (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:11 PM
To: (yak-list(at)matronics.com) (yak-list(at)matronics.com)yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
During a fairly random discussion about putting together a group ownership of a Yak-52 or CJ-6A, one of the things we talked about was what would be the minimum time requirements for a pilot to solo in the aircraft.
My thought was 200 hours total time with 50 hours of high performance / complex time.
What say y'all? Anybody have an idea what the insurance company would say?
Jon
[/url][url=http://forums.matronics.com/]http://forums.matronics.com<; - List Contribution Web Site -http://www.matronics.com/contribution<====================
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ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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The minima amount of time has always (to me anyway) depended on the person. (Some people should never get in an airplane). But ten 10 hours seem to be normal to me for a typical rated pilot. The CJ & Yak require a little more time for a zero time guys to learn than say a Cub/Champ, requiring better understanding of their systems. However one thing for certain, an instructor who does not cover the total stall series in either aircraft is tantamount to being a killer.
In all the military around the world, usually the ones whom are taught to fly are above average. Most military's have carefully controlled training programs to get students to the solo phase, with integrated steps, to advanced levels. Here that isn't always true in our private sector. Something are missed or skipped. I really believe that we've suffered some fatalities because of lapes in training. These like almost all other aircraft are slow, cross controled, low altitude, spin entries. The bain of the low time pilot, miss trained pilot.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
--
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CD 2.0
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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well said... in other words.... there is a difference between minimum requirements and competitive qualifications to fly any aircraft...
Minimum criterion will generally consist of quantitative data, i.e., hours, aircraft, ratings, education, etc. ....but this doesn't guarantee a pilot's readability to safely fly a specific type of airplane after several hours of training. Certainly having a minimum requirement list is a way to start... but each pilot should keep in the agenda a periodic review of his/her competitive qualification levels and look up for performance check-rides with a certified instructor to assure there is total proficiency. For a qualified instructor, it may be relatively easy to find out who is ready to fly a Yak/Cj and what the remaining general competitive qualifications be for a safe operation under unknown circumstances.
All pilots are different and it's better not to compare yourself to others or base your knowledge on a standard number of hours required to all. Each pilot should keep in consideration that what works for others may not be enough for himself, even if he/she does have a large number of flying hours in other types.
Start out by meeting the recommended minimums for the insurance company and the specific association and strive to be the best pilot you can be so that you will one day become competitive. If you believe you are already competitive, get out there and find ways to get your skills reviewed. Continue to update your knowledge with practice and further study making sure that "all the fields are filled in" which demonstrate that you meet the requirements to fly safe.
This should be fun and not considered as an obligation... after all we love learning anything related to aviation.
CarlÂ
| cjpilot710(at)aol.com wrote: | The minima amount of time has always (to me anyway) depended on the person. (Some people should never get in an airplane). But ten 10 hours seem to be normal to me for a typical rated pilot. The CJ & Yak require a little more time for a zero time guys to learn than say a Cub/Champ, requiring better understanding of their systems. However one thing for certain, an instructor who does not cover the total stall series in either aircraft is tantamount to being a killer.
In all the military around the world, usually the ones whom are taught to fly are above average. Most military's have carefully controlled training programs to get students to the solo phase, with integrated steps, to advanced levels. Here that isn't always true in our private sector. Something are missed or skipped. I really believe that we've suffered some fatalities because of lapes in training. These like almost all other aircraft are slow, cross controled, low altitude, spin entries. The bain of the low time pilot, miss trained pilot.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
|
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wild.blue(at)frontier.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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Speaking strictly as a CFI/stick-in-the-mud who has given more than 6000
hours of instruction, a fair amount in CJ's/-52's and lots of BFR's I would
make the following comments:
1. Competent/adequate training is more important than total time, ratings,
complex/hp time or anything else. CJ's and Yaks are easy to fly, but you
have to get it right. That requires proper instruction.
2. There are a lot of shi*ty pilots out there.
3. Experience helps.
Be careful.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
www.FlyWBA.com
JP(at)FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Jerry Painter <wild.blue(at)frontier.com (wild.blue(at)frontier.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue(at)frontier.com (wild.blue(at)frontier.com)>
Speaking strictly as a CFI/stick-in-the-mud who has given more than 6000
hours of instruction, a fair amount in CJ's/-52's and lots of BFR's I would
make the following comments:
1. Competent/adequate training is more important than total time, ratings,
complex/hp time or anything else. CJ's and Yaks are easy to fly, but you
have to get it right. That requires proper instruction.
2. There are a lot of shi*ty pilots out there.
3. Experience helps.
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I was going to weigh in on this and add my two cents. Your comment #1 covers 100% of what I was going to say but you did it with about 1/10 the number of words I was going to use.
FWIW, the training syllabus I use for transition training in the CJ6A is 10 hours: 5 on the ground and 5 in flight.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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CD 2.0
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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I would be skeptical of any transition training consisting of just 5 hours of ground instruction and 5 hours of flying time in any aircraft... 
It is not difficult to get into a flat spin through a mishandled stall turn in a Yak 52, and recovering from certain types of spins can be difficult and can lead to considerable height loss... and a simple attempted maneuver such as a stall turn, after a vertical climb, if mishandled, could easily result in a flat spin... leaving the pilot with limited airspace available for recovery.
As most know, a recovery action from an unintentional spin if delayed by the time taken to recognise and react correctly to the event could be catastrophic. This is something that a good instructor needs to "cover extensively" during training.
These are aerobatic aircraft and any pilot needs to be careful and methodical in his approach to improving his aerobatic flying. I believe the judgement of many pilots is based on "unknown circumstances" and it seems likely that many don't appreciate the degree of risk involved in the manoeuvres they are attempting.
For example, in a normal erect spin a Yak 52 will lose 300 to 400 feet per turn. If a spin develops in which the pitch attitude is less than 45° the height loss will be less per turn, but the rotation rate will be higher and the recovery may be more difficult and take longer.... Once the flat spin has fully developed it can take up to four complete rotations for the recovery to be made... stick forces on both elevator and rudder in order to move the stick forward and to obtain opposite rudder can be extremely high requiring a great deal of strength... this can give the impression of jammed controls if one is not used to it and this can only be achieved through practice with an appropriate instructor.
Carl
| brian(at)lloyd.com wrote: | FWIW, the training�syllabus�I use for transition training in the CJ6A is 10 hours: 5 on the ground and 5 in flight.
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 4:48 PM, CD 2.0 <dbowie2007(at)hotmail.com (dbowie2007(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0" <dbowie2007(at)hotmail.com (dbowie2007(at)hotmail.com)>
I would be skeptical of any transition training consisting of just 5 hours of ground instruction and 5 hours of flying time in any aircraft...
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Just a couple of points before you get carried away:
- You have to put a stake in the ground somewhere but those numbers are reasonable for a current, competent pilot.
- My 10-hour syllabus is for CJ6A transition training, not Yak-52 transition training. Yak-52 transition training involves additional exploration of spins and spin recovery. (Or should. Remember, the FAA doesn't think we need to know how to spin an aircraft or recover from said spin.)
- The actual time required is going to be dependent on the capability of the student.
- If you pour hot coffee on yourself you may get burned.
- If you repeatedly poke a dog with a stick, said dog may bite you.
- If you drop a heavy object, it may strike your foot and cause pain or injury.
- On the Yak List it is necessary to state things that would otherwise be intuitively obvious to a competent observer.
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One more thing. If you ask, you will find people on this list who have been through my 10-hour transition training course for the CJ6A. They can probably comment as to the efficacy of my syllabus.
| Quote: |
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
[url=tel:%2B1.767.617.1365]+1.767.617.1365[/url] (Dominica)
[url=tel:%2B1.916.877.5067]+1.916.877.5067[/url] (USA)
|
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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thomas_csmith(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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I need to find someone not too far from middle TN who could teach me spins in the Yak 52. Any suggestions?
[quote][b]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: Yak/CJ minimum requirements |
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Rich Hess at International Jets in Decatur, Ala.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Smith
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:09 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak/CJ minimum requirements
I need to find someone not too far from middle TN who could teach me spins in the Yak 52. Any suggestions?
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