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phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: Welding?

It's time I bought a welder and learned how to weld; mainly 4130 tubing and other light stock. Could some of you expert welders out there lend a few suggestions?

 

1. MIG or TIG? I know the difference, I just don't know which is more appropriate for 4130 welding. I'm guessing TIG?

 

2. How much should I spend on my first welder? I see some $110 boxes out there.

 

3. Is a 120v unit sufficient?

 

4. Any other tips and advice would be appreciated!

 

Phil H.

 [quote][b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: Welding?

The better work is done with a TIG. As a retired welder I  can only say "Don't scrimp on your machine" Buy the absolute best you can  afford.

 Larry

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the  forwarding history, which includes my email address.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: Welding?

Phil- A few things come to mind.  Anyone with reasonable eye/hand coordination can learn to weld.  If you have little or no experience, your local dealer usually gives short introductory lessons.  Or, a course at your local tech school, adult education program, or community college will be a great help.  Plan on practicing a lot, before trying it for keeps.

   Equipment:  Harbor Freight has a nice electronic welding helmet for under $50.  I got mine with a coupon for $39.  Welding machines:  Do yourself a favor, and buy a name brand machine- Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, etc.  The cheap Chinese made ones may or may not last, and parts will be difficult to find.  Visit your local welding supply dealers.

   Type:  The bulk of my experience is with stick welding, but I used a Lincoln flux core MIG to fabricate a new front cage for my old Firestar.  Inside, you can use a gas MIG or a TIG, but if the wind is blowing the shielding gas gives you a hard time.  I have no TIG experience.  For someone of limited experience, use a good flux core machine.  110v is okay, as the machine will not overheat with the service you will give it.

   Clean your materials!  Oil, mill scale, or the "soap" preservative will interfere with a good weld.  Slag from a torch cut should be ground down.

   Get a 110v Dremel tool, with accessories.  You will never regret it.  Get a 4" or 4 1/2" angle grinder.  I have a Ryobi.  Got it on sale at Home Depot for $39.  Works great.  use grinding wheels for shaping, and use "flap" wheels for clean and polish.  Remove any slag, both between welds, and after welding.

   Practice, practice, and practice.  The time and material are never wasted.  Remember to wear dark clothing, and welding gloves.  Never cool with water!  Air cool only, so the steel won't get brittle.  You have to play with a machine to know the heat ranges and wire feed speeds.

   Good luck, and have fun.

  

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                     FS 447



--- On Sat, 8/13/11, Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 10:40 PM



      It's time I bought a welder and learned how to weld; mainly 4130 tubing and other light stock. Could some of you expert welders out there lend a few suggestions?

 

1. MIG or TIG? I know the difference, I just don't know which is more appropriate for 4130 welding. I'm guessing TIG?

 

2. How much should I spend on my first welder? I see some $110 boxes out there.

 

3. Is a 120v unit sufficient?

 

4. Any other tips and advice would be appreciated!

 

Phil H.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	
 [quote][b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: Welding?

I agree with Larry.   Also if you get high frequency  you will have the capability to weld aluminum.

  

  

        Ed  Diebel      FF #  62      

  

  In a message dated 8/13/2011 10:11:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     The better work is done with a TIG. As a retired welder    I can only say "Don't scrimp on your machine" Buy the absolute best you can    afford.

   Larry

	


 [quote][b]

pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: Welding?

Have you considered attending a Sportair workshop? They take place around  the country on everything from fabric to welding. The latest one is in Griffin  GA on Aug 20/21. It's well worth the $359 price. The $110 welder is not even a  player. Check the schedule for a workshop in your geography. 

  

 LIMITED SPACE LEFT IN SPORTAIR TIG WELDING  COURSE

There's still room left in the EAA  SportAir Workshops TIG Welding course being held in Griffin, Georgia, set for  next weekend, August 20-21, presented in conjunction with Lincoln Electric and  the Alexander Technical Center. Students learn in a state-of-the-art welding  workshop with 12 professional welding booths using Lincoln Precision TIG 225  welding units for instruction. Also included is classroom time learning welding  basics. Tuition for EAA members is $359 and includes all materials. Register online here or call 800-967-5746. And  you can pay class fees in three easy installments with EZ Pay. To learn more  about this affordable option, call 800-967-5746 and speak with an EAA member  representative. 

  

 [quote]   ---

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

I have always used acetylene/oxygen and been very happy with it. Also, the ability to heat and bend stuff comes in handy. OTOH, welding aluminum is reeeely tough...



PS: Remember to demagnetize any joints you weld that are anywhere close to your compass.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: Welding?

Hi,  Been a welder for most of my life(now 70 years old) used all types of welders. 

 I belive that for most homebuilders that do only a small amount of welding . The best bang for the buck,

 and the easiest to learn and use is oxy acetelean,welds thin wqll 4130 great.  If you want to weld alu spend $100.00 for a good set of goggles, and get good flux--hard to find---.If you do those two things alu is easy.

 Frank

  

 

 

 

   From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sat, August 13, 2011 9:40:04 PM

Subject: Welding?



     It's time I bought a welder and learned how to weld; mainly 4130 tubing and other light stock. Could some of you expert welders out there lend a few suggestions?

 

1. MIG or TIG? I know the difference, I just don't know which is more appropriate for 4130 welding. I'm guessing TIG?

 

2. How much should I spend on my first welder? I see some $110 boxes out there.

 

3. Is a 120v unit sufficient?

 

4. Any other tips and advice would be appreciated!

 

Phil H.

[quote][b][b]

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

Practice, Practice, Practice on scrap material until you have it down. Before you weld the real thing. I took a welding course at a local Vo-Tec school and got a certificate.

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: Welding?

oxy-acetylene is the handiest thing in a workshop after the vise and the big hammer.

stubborn nut? heat.

bend and reshape metal

cut stuff off and burn down the shop



All the old airplanes were gas welded until the very last years of tube and fabric.

Very easy: right size tip for the thickness, neutral flame.



I don't recommend flux core wire feed.  Good for welding a floor pan into a VW bug but not for airplanes.

the flux remains in some pockets and is corrosive

TIG is without question the very best but too expensive for a hobby.

My last refills lasted for years and only ran out after my last little airplane fix this spring.

My new refills will likely last the rest of my life.



BB

MkIII, suzuki, last flown friday evening



On 14, Aug 2011, at 11:51 AM, Dennis Thate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Practice, Practice, Practice on scrap material until you have it down. Before you weld the real thing. I took a welding course at a local Vo-Tec school and got a certificate.

 

 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern

 

 Faith is believing what you know ain't so.    

 Mark Twain

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349384#349384

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: Welding?

I bought a cheap one, and found it to be useless. Buy one that has HF spark starter, been a while so I forget the terminology. You want the one that will start the arc without first making contact between the electrode and the work, and you also want the one that has a foot pedal for current control. 

A lot of them are stick welders that have a tig tip supposedly as a dual use. Be really careful at buying these if they are not designed for tig they are useless.



Ron (at) FHU



========





---- Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 



=============

It's time I bought a welder and learned how to weld; mainly 4130 tubing and other light stock. Could some of you expert welders out there lend a few suggestions?



1. MIG or TIG? I know the difference, I just don't know which is more appropriate for 4130 welding. I'm guessing TIG?



2. How much should I spend on my first welder? I see some $110 boxes out there.



3. Is a 120v unit sufficient?



4. Any other tips and advice would be appreciated!



Phil H.

--

kugelair.com

Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: Welding?

In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= the many List utilities such as List sp; --> http://foru             - List Contribution We                             -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: Welding?

Phil- If you have a local Tractor Supply, they usually have gasses.  The regulators that come with the Victor 250 are great.

  

                                         Bill Sullivan



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:08 AM



      In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= the many List utilities such as List sp; --> http://foru             - List Contribution We                              -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution





	
 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com

blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	
 [quote][b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Welding?

Phil,



  I admit that TIG welding is the best of all, but it isn't very practical for a do-it-yourselfer,

in his garage.  

  For me, I couldn't imagine not having a wire feed MIG, AND a oxy/acetylene set.  There

are just too many things for a guy that needs to fabricate and BOTH are indispensable.

  I have a basic two-stage oxy/acetylene welding set.  I bought the bottles USED from 

my local gas supplier.  They came filled!!   Don't waste your money on new, because

when you need to go refill them, they'll switch yours out for a used set.

  For my wire feed, I have one of those 110v Lincoln units.  They handle 99% of the things

I ever need.  I also bought the "optional" MIG conversion kit...a VERY worthwhile investment.

Flux cored is 'ok', but the gas adds a big improvement.  I got the bottle & gas used, too.

  With these two welding set-ups, the torch set and the 110v MIG wire feed, I can weld

or cut about everything I ever need to work on.  For really big stuff, I have a 220v Lincoln

stick welder.  Beyond that...I go to my local welding shop.

Mike Welch



On Aug 15, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Phil wrote:

[quote]In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= the many List utilities such as List sp; --> [/url][url=http://forums.matronics.com/]http://foru             - List Contribution We                             -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution





	
  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: Welding?

Mike- Basically, you described the equipment I have here.  Same MIG Lincoln, but I don't have the gas add-on.  I also have a 220 volt  Lincoln "tombstone" AC welder that handles everything else.  Good recommendation on the bottles- they switch mine out, too.  1/8" 6013 Lincoln rod handles most stuff you run into, and is not moisture sensative.

   Most problems with weld quality are in the skill of the operator.  Practice!!!  

  

                                         Bill Sullivan

  

                                               



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:29 AM



 Phil, 



   I admit that TIG welding is the best of all, but it isn't very practical for a do-it-yourselfer,

 in his garage.  

 



   For me, I couldn't imagine not having a wire feed MIG, AND a oxy/acetylene set.  There

 are just too many things for a guy that needs to fabricate and BOTH are indispensable.

 



   I have a basic two-stage oxy/acetylene welding set.  I bought the bottles USED from 

 my local gas supplier.  They came filled!!   Don't waste your money on new, because

 when you need to go refill them, they'll switch yours out for a used set.

 



   For my wire feed, I have one of those 110v Lincoln units.  They handle 99% of the things

 I ever need.  I also bought the "optional" MIG conversion kit...a VERY worthwhile investment.

 Flux cored is 'ok', but the gas adds a big improvement.  I got the bottle & gas used, too.

 



   With these two welding set-ups, the torch set and the 110v MIG wire feed, I can weld

 or cut about everything I ever need to work on.  For really big stuff, I have a 220v Lincoln

 stick welder.  Beyond that...I go to my local welding shop.

 



 Mike Welch

 



 

  On Aug 15, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Phil wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		       In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= the many List utilities such as List sp; --> [/url][url=http://forums.matronics.com/]http://foru             - List Contribution  We                             -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution





	
 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

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 [quote][b]

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: Welding?

Darn. Tractor Supply! Why didn't I remember that? Just called 'em. Good prices, in stock, initial purchase is reasonable, refills are reasonable...

  

 The guy didn't even wonder what I was talking about; started right in describing what they had and the swap-out procedure/prices.

  

 Always did like that place.

 

Thank you, Bill - Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:21 AM



        Phil- If you have a local Tractor Supply, they usually have gasses.  The regulators that come with the Victor 250 are great.

  

                                         Bill Sullivan



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:08 AM



      In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= the many List utilities such as List sp; --> http://foru             - List Contribution We                              -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution





	
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 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: Welding?

Tractor Supply- the big boys toy store!  Love it!

  

 do not archive.



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:43 AM



      Darn. Tractor Supply! Why didn't I remember that? Just called 'em. Good prices, in stock, initial purchase is reasonable, refills are reasonable..

  

 The guy didn't even wonder what I was talking about; started right in describing what they had and the swap-out procedure/prices.

  

 Always did like that place.

 

Thank you, Bill - Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:21 AM



        Phil- If you have a local Tractor Supply, they usually have gasses.  The regulators that come with the Victor 250 are great.

  

                                         Bill Sullivan



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:08 AM



      In fact, I found what seems to be a good price for the 0384-2550, which is the Victor Firepower 250 kit - $150 plus a little S/H.

 

I'm now in the process of looking for a couple of tanks locally; it doesn't make sense to buy them online cause they'll come empty and I'd have to fill them anyway.

 

But finding tanks locally has been really difficult (yellow pages, local internet...). Still looking. For the 10cf Acet. and 20cf Oxy tanks, I've gotten prices from $169 to $200, with refill rates of $21-27 for Acet. and $12-15 for Oxy.

 

And I've been watching YouTube videos; how to gas weld and even how to braze aluminum. Seems simple enough... I used to sweat tons of copper in a past life (MAPP gas); 1/2" all the way up to 2", 3" even 4" pipe. I used to do residential/commercial water heaters for a living out in the Bay Area.

 

Phil H.

 



--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Welding?

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:43 AM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>



If you get a gas welder make sure you get a two stage regulator.  My set came with a single stage and it made welding very difficult as the flow was constantly changing.  I bought a good two stage and it made a world of difference.



Rex





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 [quote][b]

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

BEST WELDING ADVICE â€“ Keep a container of cool water within arms length for the inevitable burns.  Skin keeps burning after heat source is removed.  Immediate dunking into cool water stops the burn and often leaves only the top surface singed with NO blister and NO pain.  



Skin needs protection from UV burns, especially with MIG or TIG.  Wear a bib to protect your neck area below your helmet or you will live to regret it years down the road.

_________________
Jerry King

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

Stick welding and MIG is relatively easy and you can probably learn on your own trough practice before beginning a serious project.  As a matter of fact, you might get much more out of a welding course if you already have experimented with the welding process.  Of course, you may have to un-learn some mistakes.  Reading helps, especially in diagnosing poor welds; but as they say: practice, practice and practice some more before working on anything important.  Stick and MIG is kind of like walking a tightrope and juggling with one hand at the same time.  



Gas welding adds another dimension.  Got to push the â€˜bubbleâ€™ around and occasionally feed rod â€“ like walking the tightrope and juggling with two hands.



TIG welding adds a third dimension (foot pedal).  Got to walk the tightrope, juggle with two hands and a foot and HOP across the tightrope.  Seriously, you need all of your gas welding skills down before learning TIG.  A trade school should work well to see if you really want to invest in the equipment.  



MIG vs TIG

Another aspect is that MIG lays down welding wire rapidly.  Too rapid for welding small thin 4130 tubing unless you know what you are dong.  Often you can get a good looking weld bead but in reality the bead is just sitting on top with little penetration.  MIG is great for stock car roll bars and general welding, is fast, requires little clean-up, is a lot of fun and requires much less skill than TIG.  With MIG, I like to weave a bit to get as much heat into the joint as I dare to insure penetration.  MIG (&TIG) also has the advantage of being able to join thick materials with thin (difficult with stick or gas welding).  In trying to weld small round tubing joints with MIG, you are going to have lots of stops and starts and that is where problems arise.



Because of the extra skills, time and equipment investment required, it would probably be better to gas weld your aircraft project.

_________________
Jerry King

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Welding?

I would suggest:



http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/index.html



Look under "TIG" welding section and "Welding 4130" section.



There is a lot of info here.  A bit of advertising and products too.

_________________
Thanks too much,

John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA

I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for.

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