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AA5 - Winglets
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andrew(at)entro.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5?



Andrew

 



 [quote] NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.   [quote][b]

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Funny you should ask.  I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up.  Wheel pants are next.

From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM

Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets



Has a winglet mod been made available for the  AA5?



Andrew

 



  	  Quote: 	
		  NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.


 	  Quote: 	
		  h  --> http://www.matronics.com/con================


	
	




 [quote][b]

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Gary,

 Do you mean winglets or wingtips?

 ned

 [quote]   ---

andrew(at)entro.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Winglets.  They are supposed to reduce/eliminate wingtip vortices thereby increasing speed, and fuel efficiency maybe wing loading.  I have some loose drawings but I wouldn't know how to calculate what the effect would be.  Would winglets add much to the AA5?



Andrew

 





 Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner

 Entro Communications

 122 Parliament St.

 Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8



 T: 416-368-6988 x 222

 M: 416-706-4490

 F: 416-368-5616



 www.entro.com



[url=http://www.entro.com/][/url]

 



 

 

On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:13 AM, 923te wrote:

[quote]Gary,

Do you mean winglets or wingtips?

ned

[quote]---

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag  at lower altitudes but at higher altitudes they add controllability and the  additional drag over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the  winglets its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.

  

 Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to  a Tiger that flies down low but I think there is room for drag reduction  and weight reduction over the factory wingtips.

   [quote][b]

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5 wing but not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there adds up. However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big issue (read: expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a compete spin program. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

 Rj Siegel    CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.

   

  Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction over the factory wingtips.

 

 	


 

  [quote][b]

andrew(at)entro.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Hi RJ,  



I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold.  So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification.

Andrew

 





 Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner

 Entro Communications

 122 Parliament St.

 Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8



 T: 416-368-6988 x 222

 M: 416-706-4490

 F: 416-368-5616



 www.entro.com



[url=http://www.entro.com/][/url]

 



 

 

On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:19 AM, ArjayS(at)AOL.COM (ArjayS(at)AOL.COM) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5 wing but not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there adds up. However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big issue (read: expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a compete spin program. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

 Rj Siegel    CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.

   

  Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction over the factory wingtips.

 

 	


 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 [quote] NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.   [quote][b]

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Hi Andrew

 Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cost to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in the corner.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi RJ,  

 

 I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold.  So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification.

 

 	


 

  [quote][b]

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

A little of both.  It's a modified wingtip.  Calculations show a 1-3% increase in speed at 10,000 feet.  Worth it?  No.  But they look bitchin'

From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13 AM

Subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets

          Gary,

 Do you mean winglets or wingtips?

 ned

 [quote]   ---

haveblue1(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Gary,



Something like these?

http://www.minix.fr/english/abstract.php

Bruce



On Aug 30, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:

[quote]A little of both.  It's a modified wingtip.  Calculations show a 1-3% increase in speed at 10,000 feet.  Worth it?  No.  But they look bitchin'

From: 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13 AM

Subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets



          Gary,

 Do you mean winglets or wingtips?

 ned

 [quote]   ---

ferdi

Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets

Hi Guys, I own a Traveler registered as experimental in South Africa. If there are winglets that are just lying around I would like to give it a try. How can I get hold of the owner?

n76lima(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Winglets???  For a Grumman?

Did you mean wing TIPS, as in the fiberglass ends of the wing?  There would be no Whitcomb Winglets for a certified Grumman.  We should be asking YOU about such things on an experimental.

--Bob Steward



Sent from Samsung mobile



ferdi <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Guys, I own a Traveler registered as experimental in South Africa. If there are winglets that are just lying around I would like to give it a try. How can I get hold of the owner?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370766#370766

andrew(at)entro.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

A while back I was looking for winglets and there was an email thread that suggested someone had developed some but would require an expensive STC to make them viable.  I'll look through my emails.   I too am still interested - ideally it would be great to know what kind of anticipated numbers the enhancement would give.

 Andrew Kuzyk

T: 416-368-6988 x 222

M: 416-706-4490



 

 

On Apr 14, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Bob Steward wrote:

[quote]--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com (n76lima(at)mindspring.com)>



Winglets???  For a Grumman?

Did you mean wing TIPS, as in the fiberglass ends of the wing?  There would be no Whitcomb Winglets for a certified Grumman.  We should be asking YOU about such things on an experimental.

--Bob Steward



Sent from Samsung mobile



ferdi <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com (ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



[quote]--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "ferdi" <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com (ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com)>



Hi Guys, I own a Traveler registered as experimental in South Africa. If there are winglets that are just lying around I would like to give it a try. How can I get hold of the owner?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370766#370766



http://www.matronics.com/co=================





  NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.   [quote][b]

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Really not worth the aggravation.  You'd only see about 1-3% speed improvement above 10,000 feet.  

        From: ferdi <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com>

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:33 PM

 Subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets

 --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "ferdi" <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com (ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com)>

Hi Guys, I own a Traveler registered as experimental in South Africa. If there are winglets that are just lying around I would like to give it a try. How can I get hold of the owner?

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370766#370766

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<========================

ferdi

Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets

[quote="ArjayS(at)AOL.COM"]Hi Andrew

 Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cost to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in the corner.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi RJ, ï¿½

 

 I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. ï¿½So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification.

 

 	


 

 This is what I am interested. The only aggravation would be getting it to South Africa.

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Ferdi,

 Can you tell us more about your experimental  Traveler? Does it have anything done to it beyond what the factory  did?

 ned

   [quote][b]

ferdi

Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: Re: AA5 - Winglets

Ned, I have only had the plane for a year now. I recently fitted an 0-360A1AD. Empty weight with the new engine is 1360, and I intend to bring it down a little more (prince prop and spline driven alternator are some of my ideas.) I am also busy with glass panel at the moment (pic attached) crossover exhaust and RV wheelpants. I am slowly fixing her up as she stood idle for 20+ years. I flew about 60 hours before the engine change.

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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

On 4/15/2012 8:51 AM, ferdi wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ned, I have only had the plane for a year now. I recently fitted an 0-360A1AD. Empty weight with the new engine is 1360, and I intend to bring it down a little more (prince prop and spline driven alternator are some of my ideas.) I am also busy with glass panel at the moment (pic attached) crossover exhaust and RV wheelpants. I am slowly fixing her up as she stood idle for 20+ years. I flew about 60 hours before the engine change.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370864#370864





 Attachments:


	


How were you able to get it licensed as an experimental?



The RV-10 fairings look nice.  I assume you can get a hydraulic 

controlled constant speed prop for it.



Cliff

andrew(at)entro.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: AA5 - Winglets

Thanks,  Its a shame it didn't have more performance benefits I do like the look of them.



A

 Andrew Kuzyk 

On Apr 15, 2012, at 4:17 AM, ferdi wrote:

[quote]--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "ferdi" <ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com (ferdi_koekemoer(at)yahoo.com)>



[quote="ArjayS(at)AOL.COM"]Hi Andrew

 Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cost to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in the corner.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi RJ, ï¿½



 I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. ï¿½So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification.

[b]

	
This is what I am interested. The only aggravation would be getting it to South Africa.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370828#370828



         - The   -->             &n========================

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