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avn100(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: Lightning-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/08/11 |
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Bullshit. If, as you claim, 7FL has been built to and in fact does cruise at 136K(at)0 MSL it can never be legally flown solo by a Sport Pilot (or even a Private or higher without current medical). With LSA, once the genie is out of the bottle, it can't be put back in. Also, you can't just swap out a controllable prop for fixed pitch if it has ever had one nor rewrite >120K Vh paperwork and placards.
And on the subject of "professionally built"... since like sleazy CZAW, despite claiming it "met" standards, Arion never submitted for (or at least never received) kit approval before the deadline under old regs, prospective owners should exhaustively examine the documentation (ideally with a skeptical DAR helping) to ensure that the original owner/builder actually personally did more than 51% of the fabrication and assembly (rather than relying entirely on hired guns or some transparently sham and too-expensive-for-just-tutoring "builder assist" program with the factory pros doing the heavy lifting) or that bird can be grounded for keeps during future reeval.
I've found used aircraft "truth in advertising" in shorter supply than ever during this post-Bush/Cheney econ slowdown so mucho caveat emptor compadres and Boner 4Tuna.
==================
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 2:56 AM, | Quote: | Maxim Voronin <voroninmax(at)gmail.com (voroninmax(at)gmail.com)> claimed
, one of the fastest ones out there, famous ..Professionally built to highest
standards, 136-142 kt cruise (S.L. and 10k), 600+ range. |
[quote]Can be flown as LSA
with fuel burn of 4.5gal/hr at 120 kts! [b]
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wampam
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: Lightning-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/08/11 |
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If you look back a couple of years you will find other posts by this gentlemen that were equally as? Need to be civil, curt.
Walt Mefford
GARMIN AT
Team Lead, Manufacturing Test Engineering
(503) 391-3343
walt.mefford(at)garmin.com<mailto:walt.mefford(at)garmin.com>
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC6ECE.FCF33F60]
N881WP
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maxim Voronin
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:49 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Lightning-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/08/11
I've got to admit I have a short fuse when it comes to e-mails starting with the word "Bullshit". Especially unsubstantiated ones.
Let's look into the issues that you bring up in the e-mail:
- 51% rule - for your information, there is an updated checklist being used these days to specify, what's done by the manufacturer of the kit, what's done by the builder, and what's done by the hired guns. DAR goes over that checklist at the time of the airworthiness certification of the aircraft. If the kit is on the list - good, less paperwork. If not - fill out the checklist.
- "professionally built" - well I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the builders assist programs offered. If you do pull out that checklist I just mentioned, you might see that bending a piece of metal and drilling two holes in there is a check mark called "Fabricate hinge". Spending 50-60 hours to build a canopy is, believe it or not, also called "Fabricate canopy" - and as far as the percentage goes, is worth just as much as that bent drilled piece of metal. Even if a kit is 48% complete, you can pay someone to build that canopy for you. Per the accepted checklists, however, Lightning kit is less than 48% complete. As a side note, being the Florida dealer for the make and model, I do consider it to be OK to call the aircraft built purely by us here in Florida to be professionally built.
- Operation by Sport Pilots or Private or higher without current medical. I believe that this is where the major portion of your "Bullshit" applied to, so let's be extra specific about things and list the requirements for the mention mode of operation.
-- Two seater max - check
-- Fixed gear - check
-- Fixed pitch prop - check
-- MTOW of 1320 lbs - check
-- Stall speed clean wing 45 kts or less - check
-- Vh of 120 kts - check
For clarification read this - http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/lsasport/sport-pilots-and-homebuilts
N787FL has the Vh specified at 2700 rpm in the books - set by me, as the manufacturer of this particular Experimental Amateur Built.
It is up to the pilot to remain legal and stay withing the limitations. Can you take a superslow Light Sport and load it heavier, than 1320? Yes. Are you going to be legal? No. Same principal applies.
It is not uncommon to draw erroneous conclusions based on limited information and lack of understanding of the subject, however, it is not a good excuse for offending me, my company, company whom I represent as a dealer, and, for crying out loud, my airplane. I do suggest that an apology is in order
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simonnelson(at)vodamail.c
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:11 am Post subject: Lightning-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/08/11 |
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> Well said!A critic is a legless man who teaches running!Sy
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!From: Maxim Voronin <voroninmax(at)gmail.com>
Sender: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 11:48:35 -0400
To: <lightning-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/08/11
I've got to admit I have=A0a short fuse=A0when it comes=A0to e-mai= ls starting with the word "Bullshit". Especially unsubstantiated = ones.
Let's look into the=A0issues that you bring up in the e-mail: =A0
- 51% rule - for your information, there is an updated=A0checklist bei= ng used these days to specify, what's done by the manufacturer of the k= it, what's done by the builder, and what's done by the hired guns. = DAR goes over that checklist at the time of the airworthiness certification= of the aircraft. If the kit is on the list - good, less paperwork. If not = - fill out the checklist.
=A0
- "professionally built" - well I'm sorry you feel the w= ay you do about the builders assist programs offered. If you do pull out th= at checklist I just mentioned, you might see that bending a piece of metal = and drilling two holes in there is a check mark called "Fabricate hing= e". Spending 50-60 hours to build a canopy is, believe it or not,=A0al= so called "Fabricate canopy" - and as far as the percentage goes,= is worth just as much as that bent drilled piece of metal. Even if a kit i= s 48% complete, you can pay someone to build that canopy for you. Per the a= ccepted checklists, however, Lightning kit is less than 48% complete. As a = side note, being the Florida dealer for the make and model, I do consider i= t to be OK to call the aircraft built purely by us here in Florida to be pr= ofessionally built.
=A0
-=A0Operation by Sport Pilots or=A0Private or higher without current m= edical. I believe that this is where the major portion of your "Bullsh= it" applied to, so let's be extra specific about things and list t= he requirements for the mention mode of operation.
-- Two seater max - check
-- Fixed gear - check
-- Fixed pitch prop - check
-- MTOW of 1320 lbs - check
-- Stall speed clean wing 45 kts or less - check
-- Vh of 120 kts - check
For clarification read this - [url=http://www.flyingmag.com/airc= raft/lsasport/sport-pilots-and-homebuilts]http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraf= t/lsasport/sport-pilots-and-homebuilts[/url]
N787FL has the Vh specified at 2700 rpm=A0in the books - set by me, as= the manufacturer of this particular Experimental Amateur Built.
It is up to the pilot to remain legal and stay withing the limitations= . Can you take a superslow Light Sport and load it heavier, than 1320? Yes.= Are you going to be legal? No. Same principal applies.
=A0
It is not uncommon to draw erroneous conclusions based on limited info= rmation and lack of understanding of the subject, however, it is not a good= excuse for offending me, my company, company whom I represent as a dealer,= and, for crying out loud, my airplane. I do suggest that an apology is in = order.
=A0
Best regards,
=A0
Maxim Voronin
Moonshine Aviation, LLC
=A0
=A0
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:31 AM, ... <avn100(at)aol.com (avn100(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]Bullshit. =A0If= , as you claim, =A07FL has been built to and in fact does cruise at 136K(at)0 = MSL it can never be legally flown solo by a = Sport Pilot (or even a Private or higher without current medical). =A0With = LSA, once the genie is out of the bottle, it can't be put back in. =A0A= lso, you can't just swap out a controllable prop for fixed pitch if it = has ever had one nor rewrite >120K Vh paperwork = and placards.=A0=20
And on the subject of "professionally built"= ;... =A0since like sleazy CZAW, despite claiming it "met" standar= ds, Arion never submitted for (or at least never received) =A0kit approval = before the deadline under old regs, prospective owners should exhaustively = examine the documentation (ideally with a skeptical DAR helping) to ensure = that the original owner/builder actually personally did more than 51% of th= e fabrication and assembly (rather than relying entirely on hired guns or s= ome transparently sham and too-expensive-for-just-tutoring =A0"builder= assist" program with the factory pros doing the heavy lifting) or tha= t bird can be grounded for keeps during future reeval.=20
I've found used aircraft "truth in advertisi= ng" in shorter supply than ever during this post-Bush/Cheney econ slow= down so mucho caveat emptor compadres and Boner 4Tuna.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 2:56 AM,=20 [quote]=A0Maxim Voronin <[url== mailto:voroninmax(at)gmail.com]voroninmax(at)gmail.com[/url]>= claimed
, one of the fastest ones out there, famous =A0 ...Professionally built to = highest
standards, 136-142 kt cruise (S.L. and 10k), 600+ range. =A0
[quote]Can be flown= as LSA
with fuel burn of 4.5gal/hr at 120 kts!=A0
| Quote: |
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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