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caflygirl

Joined: 01 Sep 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Livermore, CA

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

I love having all the info from eis. All cylinders wired etc. My first installation of eis showed my hotest cylinder well in range, but 100 hotter than the other (377). Found a scored cylinder fast. Also i dont worry much about all the numbers most of the time. Just configure the alarm limits low ( just above normal indications) and wait for the red light. The light is tested every time i start up due to how the fuel probe works. 



Happy flying



Renee



Bas spellong blaned on ophone 



On Sep 23, 2011, at 5:58 PM, "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Thom-all...

 

 It's just too much info anyway....heck ,my Skyhawk has an oil press and temp,of which really tells you next to nothing and an egt that I don't trust anyway  ! lol  

 

 chris ambrose

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353084#353084

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Hello Renee...



What are you flying?? And I take it it has a Jabiru ??



chris ambrose

M3X/jabiru A-2200

N327CS

caflygirl

Joined: 01 Sep 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Livermore, CA

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

My first eis was for a 377 on a firestar. Second was for a 503 on rans s14. Planning on a 3rd for sonex. Was looking at a mx3x but missed it. 



Renee



Bas spellong blaned on ophone 



On Sep 23, 2011, at 7:24 PM, "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello Renee...

 

 What are you flying?? And I take it it has a Jabiru ??

 

 chris ambrose

 M3X/jabiru A-2200

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353090#353090

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom....



Where are your cht sensors on you back cylinders?? I had one on the rear plug and on eon the front plug not thinking it would make that much difference,but it does...with the air blowing on the front  with the sensor it read 260....on the other side,air blowing in the same place ,but the sensor on the rear plug,it read 301...I  moved the right side to the front plug and it now reads 270-280*....and I'm guessing my rocket that sticks up about 12 in in front of that scoop could be making the 10* dif in temp...???   you think???



Oh yeah...I did turn the carb a little bit more and it is now within a 100* of each other...(EGT)



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru A -2200   227.5 hrs

N327CS

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,



Jabiru recommends that the cht probes are on the exhaust side plugs of each cylinder.   For us on our 2200 that would be the either front or back plugs as the intake is the middle 2 on each side.  I have a pretty good difference from side to side on chts and I thought it could be because of the rocket for brs also.  If you see my above pic in an earlier post the rocket is in front of my hotter side. 



I did not make any baffles yet as I did not get to fly much over the weekend but I did make the static tube for the carb as recommended by Jabiru Pacific and it lowered my EGT's by 100 degrees.  But I still have some testing to do.



Travis Bennett

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,

Jabiru says to put the CHT spark plug ring sensors on the plug nearest the exhaust port, which is the hotter of the two spark plug locations. That is where mine are. Jabiru also states that the spark plug gasket that comes with the spark plug should be removed (temporarily) from the plug that gets the CHT ring, then put back on that plug after the CHT ring is in place. Thus, the CHT ring does not make direct contact with the head. It is sandwiched between the plug and the gasket.

  

However, I remove the spark plug gasket and discard it, replacing it with the CHT sensor ring on that plug. My reason for doing that is three fold. One, the electrode location in the combustion chamber is somewhat important so adding the CHT ring AND the gasket moves it away from its intended location. Two, the CHT sensor gets direct contact with the cylinder head instead of being removed from it by the thickness of the gasket. Three, heat transfer between the head and plug depends upon contact area so adding a bit of thickness reduces this contact area. I've been doing this for a long time on all aircraft engines per other manufacturers' recommendations and what I learned in A&P school.

  



At the Jabiru seminar I recently attended I asked Pete Krotje why they want the gasket between the CHT ring and the head. He said that there have been some cases of leaking around the CHT sensor ring when the gasket is removed. I suggested that that is probably being caused by overtorqueing the spark plugs, a common but bad practice. He agreed that that may be the cause, So, I intend to continue installing the CHT sensor rings on the exhaust side plug without the gasket on that plug, and torqueing properly. I also make sure that the ring to wire connection and the wire itself is laid down between the head fins to keep the junction exposure to airflow to a minimum. I am not sure how important any of these little differences are but the cumulative effect is probably measurable.

  



Thom

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:19 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

   

 Thom....

 

 Where are your cht sensors on you back cylinders?? I had one on the rear plug and on eon the front plug not thinking it would make that much difference,but it does...with the air blowing on the front  with the sensor it read 260....on the other side,air blowing in the same place ,but the sensor on the rear plug,it read 301...I  moved the right side to the front plug and it now reads 270-280*....and I'm guessing my rocket that sticks up about 12 in in front of that scoop could be making the 10* dif in temp...???   you think???

   

 Oh yeah...I did turn the carb a little bit more and it is now within a 100* of each other...(EGT)

 

 chris ambrose

 M3X/Jabiru A -2200   227.5 hrs

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353367#353367

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:04 am Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

My BRS rocket is in the same relative position as all Jabiru engine Kolbs. No meaningful difference from side -to- side but mine has had the baffles/deflectors tweaked to get that result. Regardless of the cause, the cure is the same. 

  



Thom



  



On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:16 PM, tkben002 <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Chris,

 

 Jabiru recommends that the cht probes are on the exhaust side plugs of each cylinder.   For us on our 2200 that would be the either front or back plugs as the intake is the middle 2 on each side.  I have a pretty good difference from side to side on chts and I thought it could be because of the rocket for brs also.  If you see my above pic in an earlier post the rocket is in front of my hotter side.

   

 I did not make any baffles yet as I did not get to fly much over the weekend but I did make the static tube for the carb as recommended by Jabiru Pacific and it lowered my EGT's by 100 degrees.  But I still have some testing to do.

   

 Travis Bennett

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353372#353372

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom..Travis..

 

I was hoping thats how you got the 260* temp on the back cylinders..I am moving it back to the rear plug...all in all the deflector did lower the temp from 320 to 300,so I can live with that...



Just a thought..(  it's starting to hurt my little brain though) ,The front intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling???



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru A-2200

N327CS

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

I had thought of that also.  I figured that the rocket possibly disrupted some airflow (minor) and that the duct on cylinders 1 and 3 was longer before the cylinder starts would have some effect overall on cooling.  I have not made my baffles yet but I will start on one side and put the cht probes on both cylinders on the side so I can adjust the front and back at the same time and not worry about overheating either one.  When I finish 1 side I will move on to the next side.    I agree with Thom that "the cure is the same" that it is just going to take time and trial and error to get the correct baffling from front to back, but once it is done, it will be done and should not have to mess with it again.



I do not remember if i posted this but when I moved my spark plug wires from in front of the baffle openings like in the picture a few posts back, to over the top of the ducts and out of the way, that my actual temperatures went up.  I was a little suprised by this result but hopefully it will be easy to work thru to get the desired result.



Travis Bennett

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

The front intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling???





  



Chris,

I have no idea, in fact I never noticed this. By deeper, do you meant top to bottom of opening or front to back? 

  

Thom





On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:24 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

   

 Thom..Travis..

 

 I was hoping thats how you got the 260* temp on the back cylinders..I am moving it back to the rear plug...all in all the deflector did lower the temp from 320 to 300,so I can live with that...

 

 Just a thought..(  it's starting to hurt my little brain though) ,The front intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling???

 

 chris ambrose

 M3X/Jabiru A-2200

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353464#353464

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom...



from the front of the scoop to the fins are deeper on the left side( cylinder set back) where the right side the fins are right at the front of the scoops..



chris ambrose

Frankd

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Hi guys, 



Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time. 



Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below 360Deg.  and EGT's below 1400..   Way too lean. 



I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific.   when the tube was inserted into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept the mixture lean..    Ok, fixed that. 



I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85..  



I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops. 



I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's . 



Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max.

In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg  and EGT's were just under 1300.  



I'm getting there! 

I've included pics of the static port to the carb  and also my current wing and tail angles . 



Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it.



If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well. 



Tom,  you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet?  Maybe I can go somewhat richer.  



Thanks

FrankD

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

FrankD,

I know you said that Jabiru Pacific said to do the "static port" the way you show in your photo but ALL the Jabiru's I've ever seen or heard about have the float bowl vent (not static) connected to the inside of the air cleaner by way of a the end of the conical air filter. In other words, the tube from the float bowl vent goes into the end of the air cleaner so that the float bowl has the same air pressure as the inlet side of the carb. Not sure why Jabiru Pacific recommended you do it that way. I didn't hear anything about doing it that way from Pete Krotje two weeks ago in his seminar. Maybe that is an accepted alternate way of doing. Beats me.

  

When I replaced the Bing jet needle with the Jabiru jet needle I changed the needle jet (cruise jet) to 280 and the main jet to the closest to recommended(220 to 250) by Jabiru that I had on hand, #255. Configured like this, at low altitude, my cruise EGT is right on the target 1325F. It gets richer as I climb to higher altitudes. Only during my first flight after this change did I still get a hotter than desired EGT during WOT climb at Vy. On subsequent flights, inexplicably, the WOT at Vy EGT was colder than target, so I might go to a bit lower number main jet, maybe. 

  



Thom

  



On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Frankd <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Frankd" <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)>

 

 Hi guys,

 

 Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time.

 

 Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below 360Deg.  and EGT's below 1400..   Way too lean.

 

 I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific.   when the tube was inserted into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept the mixture lean..    Ok, fixed that.

   

 I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85..

 

 I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops.

 

 I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's .

 

 Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max.

 In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg  and EGT's were just under 1300.

 

 I'm getting there!

 I've included pics of the static port to the carb  and also my current wing and tail angles .

 

 Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it.

 

 If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well.

 

 Tom,  you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet?  Maybe I can go somewhat richer.

 

 Thanks

 FrankD

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353721#353721

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_lift_106.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_alignment_258.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_right_113.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_left_150.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/static_port_to_carb_991.jpg

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

FrankD,

Forgot to mention in previous email. In these photos, it looks to me like the deflectors at the top of the duct are vertical. This could be an optical illusion since the photos is taken head on. In any case, they should be angle back(at the bottom) roughly 45 degrees or so, not vertical and the one over the front cylinder should be shorter than the one over the aft cylinder to allow air flow to reach the aft cylinder deflector. These are just general recommendations so if your CHTs are in line the way you have them, then great! As I stated before, my CHTs typically run 270-290F in cruise. You may or may not get them that low. As long as they stay in the green, that is good.

  

Thom





On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  [quote]FrankD,

I know you said that Jabiru Pacific said to do the "static port" the way you show in your photo but ALL the Jabiru's I've ever seen or heard about have the float bowl vent (not static) connected to the inside of the air cleaner by way of a the end of the conical air filter. In other words, the tube from the float bowl vent goes into the end of the air cleaner so that the float bowl has the same air pressure as the inlet side of the carb. Not sure why Jabiru Pacific recommended you do it that way. I didn't hear anything about doing it that way from Pete Krotje two weeks ago in his seminar. Maybe that is an accepted alternate way of doing. Beats me.

   

When I replaced the Bing jet needle with the Jabiru jet needle I changed the needle jet (cruise jet) to 280 and the main jet to the closest to recommended(220 to 250) by Jabiru that I had on hand, #255. Configured like this, at low altitude, my cruise EGT is right on the target 1325F. It gets richer as I climb to higher altitudes. Only during my first flight after this change did I still get a hotter than desired EGT during WOT climb at Vy. On subsequent flights, inexplicably, the WOT at Vy EGT was colder than target, so I might go to a bit lower number main jet, maybe. 

   



Thom



   



On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Frankd <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Frankd" <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)>

 

 Hi guys,

 

 Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time.

 

 Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below 360Deg.  and EGT's below 1400..   Way too lean.

 

 I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific.   when the tube was inserted into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept the mixture lean..    Ok, fixed that.

    

 I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85..

 

 I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops.

 

 I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's .

 

 Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max.

 In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg  and EGT's were just under 1300.

 

 I'm getting there!

 I've included pics of the static port to the carb  and also my current wing and tail angles .

 

 Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it.

 

 If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well.

 

 Tom,  you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet?  Maybe I can go somewhat richer.

 

 Thanks

 FrankD

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353721#353721

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_lift_106.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_alignment_258.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_right_113.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_left_150.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/static_port_to_carb_991.jpg

 

 

 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


 



[b]

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Frankd

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Hi Thom, 

thanks for the feedback. 



The top deflectors are about 60Deg angled back..   Since the back cylinder was the hottest,  i took the front deflector off today ,  to try to balance out the temp difference. 



I would love to be under 300 Deg CHT in cruise,  thats my goal.  

So I think I'm going to try  slightly bigger jets  and continue to work the baffles.  



If I can get the radio noise down and a real Trim tab for the elevator,  that would be the best of all worlds.  



Fun, Fun.. 

thanks for all feedback,  if anyone else has the jabiru magic set-up,  I'd love to hear about it. 



Rgds

Frankd

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

FrankD,

Did you get the Jabiru needle installed yet? I was unsuccessful with the EGTs until I replaced the needle.

  



You mentioned elevator trim. My SS has a very good one installed by the builder. Attached is a photo. If I needed one now though, I would probably just rig an adjustable bungee in the cockpit. Simple, cheap and works as well as an electric tab with no extra weight on the tail or complexity of wiring. That said, it turns out my SS hardly needs one solo, which is the only way I fly it. My trim setting at cruise is the same as required on final approach with flaps. Only in between those two extremes is it slightly out of trim and not worth bothering with. 

  



I was also fortunate regarding radio noise. The builder of my SS is an electrician by trade and he did all the right things with wire routing, grounding, shielding, etc. My handheld iCom A6 with ship's power and airframe mounted antenna has no ignition or other noise whatsoever.... other than the engine/prop, of course.

  



Thom

  



On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Frankd <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Frankd" <FDucker(at)aol.com (FDucker(at)aol.com)>

 

 Hi Thom,

 thanks for the feedback.

 

 The top deflectors are about 60Deg angled back..   Since the back cylinder was the hottest,  i took the front deflector off today ,  to try to balance out the temp difference.

 

 I would love to be under 300 Deg CHT in cruise,  thats my goal.

 So I think I'm going to try  slightly bigger jets  and continue to work the baffles.

 

 If I can get the radio noise down and a real Trim tab for the elevator,  that would be the best of all worlds.

 

 Fun, Fun..

 thanks for all feedback,  if anyone else has the jabiru magic set-up,  I'd love to hear about it.

 

 Rgds

 Frankd

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353748#353748

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Well, I finally built some baffles.  I built a front and rear only and only on the cylinders 2 and 4 bank.  I only have 2 cht probes so I moved them both to that side so I can tweak it as needed.  I went and flew for an hour and could not get the chts on either one over 330 to 335 and that was climb to 5k ft at 60 mph.  At cruise the hottest one (the back cylinder) was anywhere from 295 to 305.  So far the results are good, still need to work at it though.



Travis Bennett

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