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701 Dual stick mod
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Some have modified the right-side stick to make the handle removable.



-- Craig 



--

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Hello All:

           I fly  gliders which generally have a joy stick which is a natural 

feel (i.e. lean and  the glider turns).  I flew the factory 701 recently. I 

was skeptical about  the center yoke but when flying the plane it feels like a 

side stick ala Cirrus.  The 701 is very responsive, it to is a lean and turn 

plane.

 

Regards, John Read. Rudder complete kit coming in July

 

do not archive

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

---

mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

For what it's worth



My 701 has the stock center stick. A friend that is building a Rans S-6, and

that has their standard dual stick told me to try his on for size today. Trying

to get my leg around that stick (and not being quite as limber as I was when I

was a tad younger), while not impossible, definitely makes me appreciate not

having to maneuver around that stick every time I want to get in or out. Also my

daughter that flies with me regularly has some physical handicaps that would

likely make it a real chore for her to enter or exit the airplane trying to get

past the dual stick setup. Something to keep in mind if there should ever be the

need to make a fast exit from the aircraft in an emergency situation. I wouldn't

trade the center stick for duals in mine for anything. Besides, it is quite

comfortable to operate.



Mike Sinclair  N701TD



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 From: "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com>

 To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

 Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:49 AM

 Subject: Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod

 All-

     I may regret it later, but it the responses seem to favor the center

 stick for access reasons. I've decided to go with the original design

 arrangement. I guess it will be a while before I can provide a builder's

 report.

                                                           Bill

Larry Martin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Cabot, Arkansas

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

It certainly is a case of "to each his own".   However, with the dual sticks 

properly curved and not straight it is a very easy task to get in and out. 

A "C" bend allows your right foot/leg to easily pass the stick when getting 

in and out.  Same thing applies for the passenger side.   And, my passenger 

side is pinned for easy removal.   I don't like the passenger having access 

to the stick unless training.  When I flew in the passenger seat in Mexico 

with Roger, I found when Roger was flying I had to keep my left leg as far 

right as possible in order not to interfere with his movements.  It was very 

uncomfortable and unnatural.  This is especially bad for tall people.  When 

I was flying, I found it to be unnatural and again uncomfortable to use my 

left hand.   He had to keep his right leg held to the his left.

Either way the plane is very easy to fly.  I just think the dual sticks 

offer more ease of use and are certainly more natural in placement.  A 

center stick is sorta like putting the steering wheel in the center of your 

car, great for mail carriers.   I certainly wouldn't want to drive that way.



Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com



---

_________________
701 with a Harley, www.skyhawg.com

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

---

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Hi Bill,



I commend you on your attitude and conclusions.  I think it is a 

great idea to do transition training and to find a good instructor to help you.



On the other hand, I think you are a little too pessimistic on how 

difficult it will be.



For starters, I think you should start thinking and flying by visual 

references rather than by thinking about control input pressure.  All 

planes fly about the same when considering the pitch, roll, and yaw 

attitude even though the control levers and pressures might differ 

considerably.  (There are huge differences when you are flying a 

heavy plane vs. a light one, but all the planes you are discussing 

are light ones.)



I understand transitioning from yoke to stick is very natural while 

the people who have flown sticks and want to learn yokes have a bit 

of a problem to overcome.  I don't think it makes any difference 

whether it is a center stick or side stick except for which hand you 

use.  If you sit in the left seat, you will need to change hands, but 

this is similar to flying your old familiar plane in the other front seat.



You can learn the stick movements and the visual reference stuff by 

flying simulators on your PC.  Microsoft flight simulator is an 

excellent tool for this.  Just get yourself a joystick rather than a 

yoke.  The cost of the joystick and simulator software will be less 

than an hour of instruction in a real plane and you can fly it for as 

many hours as you care to.



I think you will find the transition is a real effort but not a 

particularly hard or lengthy one.



Good luck,



Paul

XL wings



 	  Quote: 	
		       After sleeping on it, I realized that it doesn't matter whether the

stick is in the center or between my legs, I'm still going to have to learn

how to fly all over again, as will anyone who has always flown a yoke. From

left hand on the yoke and right hand on the throttle to the other way

around. From X amount of backpressure for a C150/152 or Y amount of

backpressure for a C172 to rotate, or, from first flight reports, B amount

of backpressure for a Zenith. Wing in the basement instead of wing in the

attic. If I go with a WW Corvair, left rudder to track the centerline vs

right. I can't believe it took me this long to put it all together. My

tactile stimulus/response has been conditioned over the last 30+ years for

exactly the opposite inputs necessary to fly my Zenith.

     Pride, be damned. I'm going to see if I can talk a CFI I know who has

aerobatic experience into teaching me how to fly my own plane. I can (For

the most part) make a Cessna do what I want it to, but all my experience is

now less than worthless- it's a detriment, unless I fly solo from the right

seat.

     Complain all you want, the FAA and insurance companies have a leg to

stand on mandating transition training. At least in my case.

     Bill




	


-

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Paul-

    My point is that I've been conditioned over the past 30+ years to react 

like Pavlov's dog, and I don't want to be salivating while chewing on an 

extension cord.

    I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic. After all the work I've put 

in, I'm not going to take a chance pranging the plane. As I said before, 

pride be damned.

    Cheap insurance.

                                            Bill

---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Ya I see both sides of this argument and I fretted long and hard over

this very issue...I.e first time with a stick, low wing throttle/yoke

hands reversed.



I can say the 601 was so easy to fly I was quite surprised.



Having said that...Mt Rv 7 is now equppied with left hand throttle just

like the Zodiac I been flying for 400 hours..



Frank 



--

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
Guest

Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

---

BobTezyk

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Hi Bill,



I am a 25 year veteran of yoke flying had the same concerns as you about 

flying with a stick.  I just got my glider rating where you cannot find an 

airplane without a stick.  To my surprise, It did not take me but a few 

minutes to feel natural flying a stick with my right hand.



The differences are primarily in the amount of hand travel you will 

experience.  A stick will require a little less hand travel than a yoke.  I 

found that it was actually more intuitive to fly stick over yoke.



I would like to suggest that you find a local glider operation with an 

instructor and take a few glider lessons.  This will be a cheap way of 

determining if the stick will present a problem for you.  It will probably 

cost under $200 and probably under $100 if you find a club with a temporary 

membership and/or demo ride policy (most do) in their bylaws.



I have found that when you are on tow (that is hooked up to the tow plane) 

for the first time, a yoke pilot will have an tendency to over-control. 

This is compounded by the fact that you have to fly within a very narrow 

window behind the tow plane to maintain proper formation.  Do not get 

discouraged if it takes a few tows to get the hang of it.



Once off tow, you are traveling slower and you no longer are constrained by 

the tow plane.  The flying becomes a joy as you rest your right hand on your 

right leg and just make small movements to get the glider to go where you 

want it.  On landing, you will get a good feel for how it would be like in a 

power plane because you will be using your left hand to control the spoiler 

handle.  Think of the spoilers as the glider "throttle handle".  You use it 

the same way as a throttle in a power plane to control your glide path for 

touchdown.



If after trying a glider, you can feel comfortable flying off tow and 

landing, you will have no problem with a stick.  If you get the hang of 

flying on tow with a stick in a few flights, your an ace already and you are 

more than ready to handle a stick equipped power plane.



One more thing - It only takes 10 hours to get a glider add on rating with 

only a verbal and practical test needed.  Getting a new rating also renews 

your BFR so you can resolve several issues at once, get more confidence in 

your abilities and do it for around $1500 or less. Once you complete a 

glider rating, you will be more than just stick qualified.  You will have 

the skill required to do perfect engine out landing every time.



Regards,



Bob Tezyk

mailto:bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org

http://www.eaglesnestestates.org

jnjkimbell(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

Dirk, My name is Joe Kimbell and I an a Lurker on the zenith list, but I 

would really like to see some of your pictures or info as I own and fly a 

701 and would like to use dual sticks.  I have already lenghtened (SP) and 

was going to replace the y with a straight stick.  Anything you send would 

be appreciated.   Joe

---

Larry Martin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Cabot, Arkansas

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: 701 Dual stick mod

You can find some pictures of my retrofit dual stick mod on my site, 

www.skyhawg.com.  Larry

---

_________________
701 with a Harley, www.skyhawg.com

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