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dj45
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI
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 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: System Design |
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Could one or two of you expert electron herders look this over and give any advise, pro or con?
http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Wiring%20page.html
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Dan Stanton
N801S CH 801
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:30 am Post subject: System Design |
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vAt 07:09 AM 10/10/2011, you wrote:
Could one or two of you expert electron herders look this over and
give any advise, pro or con?
http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Wiring%20page.html
Drawings like these are less than helpful. The
generous sprinkling of breakers and fuses says
the author was worried more about having things
burn up than about how things worked or what
materials and processes were used.
Suggest you hook your wagon to the AeroElectric-List
and let's talk about how you intend to use this
airplane and help you establish some design goals
for both normal and operations under failure of
any single component.
Once those goals are in place and shared, we
can assist you with a great deal more detail
than what is provided in the drawing you
cited above.
Tell us about your airplane, its engine and
how you plan to use it.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
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nuckollsr
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Medicine Lodge, KS
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: Re: System Design |
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I spoke too soon. I did not scroll down far enough in the webpage you cited . . . The offered drawings are considerably more complete than I first perceived.
My original impressions about the sprinkling of fuses/breakers was valid . . . and this architecture is more like an automobile than an airplane. In no way am I suggesting that their system does not FUNCTION as advertised; only that it would benefit from some lessons learned in the legacy aircraft architectures and wiring. These folks have obviously done a lot of work to bring this product to market and it looks like a well conceived project. This particular engine might warrant a new Z-figure.
My original advice is still operative. Let's talk!
Bob . . .
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dj45
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: System Design |
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Bob,
I am using Z19 with some minor changes. It is in a Zenith 701.
After three very interesting flights with another engine set up. I may be on the overly cautious side.
I was just wondering what other's opinions of would be of the factory dwgs. I don't see what effect the capacitor will have in it's location.
As I said, I'm not using this, I was just wondering.
Thanks
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Dan Stanton
N801S CH 801
N226BS CH701
N24DS CH750 |
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Viking System Design |
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The 100 amp starter fuse and 50 amp aircraft fuse are not normally used in aircraft. Evidently this circuit has been used successfully. But I question why the 100 amp starter fuse does not blow. I thought that starter motors draw hundreds of amps.
The other fuses and wires are not sized to match each other or the loads.
The "Backup" switch is a single point of failure. When it fails, the engine quits.
The ECU Select relay is another single point of failure. When it fails, the engine quits. The relay is SPDT, not SPST as labeled.
The 25 amp fuse and wire for engine electrical power are more single points of failure. When the fuse blows or the wire breaks, the engine quits.
The recommendation to "Replace capacitor every other annual inspection", is being overly conservative. Other parts like fuses and switches are just as likely to fail.
Joe Gores
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Viking System Design |
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Controlling the alternator field coil with the ignition switches is a bad idea. The way it is now, the alternator can not be shut off without shutting off the engine. If the alternator quits working, the alternator field should be shut off to conserve the battery. If the alternator puts out too high of a voltage, it needs to be shut off, preferably with automatic over-voltage protection.
I suggest using one of Bob's schematics instead of Viking's.
Joe
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dj45
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: Re: System Design |
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Joe Gores,
I see that you have been posting on the Viking site some.
Do you see any reason that Bob's Z19 won't work with this engine?
Thanks for any advise.
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Dan Stanton
N801S CH 801
N226BS CH701
N24DS CH750 |
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: System Design |
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| Quote: | I see that you have been posting on the Viking site some.
Do you see any reason that Bob's Z19 won't work with this engine? |
The reason that I took an interest in the Viking engine is that my brother is building a 601XL and intends to install a Viking engine.
Z-19 should work with some minor changes. The Viking alternator has a built-in regulator, so an external one is not needed. The Viking electronic ignition has an ECU-select wire that is either connected to a positive voltage (from the ECU) or to ground, using a relay or switch. I am basing these statements on the limited information available on the Viking website.
It is my understanding that modern aircraft batteries have the same chance of suddenly failing as do the wing spars, as long as good workmanship is used on the electrical connections. Weight can be saved by using one larger battery rather than two smaller ones. And a single battery system is less complicated. And so I modified one of Bob's drawings for use with the Viking engine. My PDF drawing can be downloaded from here:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7ZTG2VpCuDRNDFkZjUzNzQtMmRmMS00Y2MyLWE0Y2EtYzAwOTg4MjZiOTk4
I am not claiming that my schematic is any better than Bob's. His schematics have been proven over time. Mine has not. In fact, I drew mine without having the engine and ECU in hand.
No matter how you wire your plane, look at each component and ask, "If this part fails, what is the backup to keep the engine running?"
Eggenfellner says that the ECU will run from alternator power with the battery disconnected.
http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Wiring%20page.html
So the battery backs up the alternator and vise-versa. My drawing has diodes to steer voltage from the highest source to the ECU and fuel pump. Use at your own risk.
Joe Gores
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dj45
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: System Design |
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Thank you Joe & Bob,
I currently have Z 19 installed. I kind of like your Dwg.
Maybe next year I may change it around. Right now, all I want to do is get it running and fly off 5 hrs.
It's been a very long summer for engine change.
One damn thing after the other. Oh well, it will all work out in the end.
Thank you again for the help.
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Dan Stanton
N801S CH 801
N226BS CH701
N24DS CH750 |
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