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FIRESTARII

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

     WOW Guys and Gals!  When I purchased my FSII it came with two sets of wing struts,  one with fairings and one without.  The struts with the fairings were off a FS that went into the intra coastal water ways, thus salt water.  I was very leery of that so I was not comfortable using them so I have been flying with the non-faired struts.  I was however curious as to what impact they would actually have.  So I removed the fairings from the struts and installed them on the ones I have been flying with.  I just landed after an hour and a half flight with them installed and WOW is all I can say!  Very much to my surprise they made an ENORMOUS difference!  The airplane was way smoother cruised a good 10 MPH indicated better.  The biggest surprise was in glide,  best glide, best as I can figure based purely on feel is about 45-48 indicated.  The difference was astonishing, at lest to me!  In a totally non scientific, seat of the pants, guess, I bet it was 30% farther.  Now mind you I am guessing here but to not only see, but feel a difference so significant just amazed me.  I'll never fly with out them again!   Cruise speed to jumped a good 10MPH at 5500 and the airplane just "Felt" smoother to me.  WOW!  Any way I just thought I would let every body know what a difference it made on my airplane and highly recommend them to any one not currently using them!  Let me know if you guys have seen such a difference and what else you can recommend to further improve my FSII. Fly safe and have fun every body!

_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Let me know if you guys have seen such a difference and what else you can

recommend to further improve my FSII. Fly safe and have fun every body!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II

 

Folks:



I was also surprised after Brother Jim fabricated me a pair of lift struts

from 4130 streamlined tubing.  Improvements were amazing.  Most notable was

elimination of lift strut vibration in flight.



This was 1987 and my Firestar which had no brakes.  Flying off my 650 foot

grass strip, at that time, I had trouble getting the Firestar slowed down

before I ran out of airstrip.  The improved lift struts necessitated brakes.

I had flown the Firestar a couple years without brakes, making flights to

Miami, FL, and The Flight Farm near Monterey, NY.



The Firestar was much cleaner with improved glide.



john h

mkIII

7 miles south of Burns Junction, Oregon.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Dennis,



The vid may be old, but it sure tells the story! Thanks for posting it.



And to Henry, the fellow from HI who sent the gorgeous photo and was 

interested in converting from two struts to one on his FF, I measured 

the dimensions of the struts that were installed on mine and they are 

about 1" at the thickest point (although without a micrometer it's just 

a bit difficult to be 100% accurate with the attaching mechanism on the 

end interfering with the tape) and they're 2 3/8" front to rear.



Hope that helps.



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK



On 10/5/2011 8:39 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE



 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern



 â€¦â€These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch onâ€¦â€ Unknown





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354144#354144

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

FirestarII, Take a look at the video here and you can see how the vortex street behind a round tube grows.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_vortex_street

 



Rick Girard



On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:51 PM, FIRESTARII <CCMFarms(at)aol.com (CCMFarms(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "FIRESTARII" <CCMFarms(at)aol.com (CCMFarms(at)aol.com)>

 

   [Shocked]   WOW Guys and Gals!  When I purchased my FSII it came with two sets of wing struts,  one with fairings and one without.  The struts with the fairings were off a FS that went into the intra coastal water ways, thus salt water.  I was very leery of that so I was not comfortable using them so I have been flying with the non-faired struts.  I was however curious as to what impact they would actually have.  So I removed the fairings from the struts and installed them on the ones I have been flying with.  I just landed after an hour and a half flight with them installed and WOW is all I can say!  Very much to my surprise they made an ENORMOUS difference!  The airplane was way smoother cruised a good 10 MPH indicated better.  The biggest surprise was in glide,  best glide, best as I can figure based purely on feel is about 45-48 indicated.  The difference was astonishing, at lest to me!  In a totally non scientific, seat of the pants, guess, I bet it was 30% farther.!

     Now mind you I am guessing here but to not only see, but feel a difference so significant just amazed me.  I'll never fly with out them again!   Cruise speed to jumped a good 10MPH at 5500 and the airplane just "Felt" smoother to me.  WOW!  Any way I just thought I would let every body know what a difference it made on my airplane and highly recommend them to any one not currently using them!  Let me know if you guys have seen such a difference and what else you can recommend to further improve my FSII. Fly safe and have fun every body!

  

 --------

 Low and Slow FireStar II

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354135#354135

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

Get yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

FIRESTARII

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

The gear legs are my very next step! Looking forward to seeing what a difference that makes.

_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

 	  Richard Pike wrote: 	
		  Get yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble. 	




Richard,



  How about a close up photo of this stream lined landing gear idea, is it riveted like the wing strut covers ?

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Where could a feller get about 4' of that?  And how to attach  it?

  

 In a message dated 10/5/2011 11:06:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Get    yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to    fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be    pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble.

	
  

 Do not archive

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 	
 [quote][b]

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

Some guys attach it with a little expanding foam inserted into each end   G.Aman

  

     

  

     

  

    --

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

 	  Quote: 	
		  Get    yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to    fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be    pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble.

	
  

 Do not archive

 [quote]

 



what if you cut some Styrofoam, or blue board,  make it fit the axel, then carve it back to the airfoil shape you want,  cover it with polly fiber, and paint it?    light  easy.the foam would have to be resistant topolly chemicals. just thinking outloud boyd young mkiii[b]

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Boyd,



  I have all the ingredients you mentioned(foam, fabric, Poly stuff)    I think I'll give your suggestion a try.

  I'll get back to ya after I find out how it turns out.

Mike Welch



On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:29 PM, b young wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  Get yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble.

	
 

Do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



what if you cut some Styrofoam, or blue board,  make it fit the axel, then carve it back to the airfoil shape you want,  cover it with polly fiber, and paint it?    light  easy.the foam would have to be resistant topolly chemicals. just thinking outloud boyd young mkiii  make it fit the axel, then carve it back to 	
0

	


 [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

I don't mean to be a wet blanket on Boyd's PBI, but styrofoam will not stand up to Poly Fiber chemicals whose major solvent is MEK. Instead, coat the styrofoam with a mix of epoxy resin and microballoons then wrap with polyester cloth. After the resin has cured, pull the cloth off. To fill any pinholes remaining, use pure resin applied with a brush and scrapped with a single edge razor blade. Repeat this last step as necessary (depending on how much of a perfectionist you are) until you get the finish you want. Take care with your selection of paints as any holes in the epoxy will allow the solvent to attack the foam. Polyurethane paints are usually safe. 



Rick



On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Boyd,



  I have all the ingredients you mentioned(foam, fabric, Poly stuff)    I think I'll give your suggestion a try.

 



  I'll get back to ya after I find out how it turns out.

Mike Welch

 

On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:29 PM, b young wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  Get yourself some of the plastic streamline fairing material that is intended to fit over the lift struts and cut it to fit the landing ear legs. You will be pleasantly surprised. It is worth the trouble.

 	
 

Do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  



what if you cut some Styrofoam, or blue board,  make it fit the axel, then carve it back to the airfoil shape you want,  cover it with polly fiber, and paint it?    light  easy.the foam would have to be resistant topolly chemicals. just thinking outloud boyd young mkiii  make it fit the axel, then carve it back to 	
0



	


  	  Quote: 	
		    make it fit the axel, then carve it back to 	
1



	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

I don't mean to be a wet blanket on Boyd's PBI, but Styrofoam will not  stand up to Poly Fiber chemicals whose major solvent is MEK. Instead, coat the  Styrofoam with a mix of epoxy resin and microballoons then wrap with polyester  cloth. After the resin has cured, pull the cloth off. To fill any pinholes  remaining, use pure resin applied with a brush and scrapped with a single edge  razor blade. Repeat this last step as necessary (depending on how much of a  perfectionist you are) until you get the finish you want. Take care with your  selection of paints as any holes in the epoxy will allow the solvent to attack  the foam. Polyurethane paints are usually safe.  



 Rick

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 rick and others
	


  

 that is why I mentioned Styrofoam,  or other  foam not affected by polly products,  ( I figured Styrofoam would be  affected by the polly juice, pun intended,   not sure if it will even  handle some epoxy resins)    there are blue and green insulating  foam boards,  polystyrene???      I believe that  some of the long easy, vary easy,  and other fiberglass kits use  foam,  it may take a bit of research, but I am sure there is some type of  combination that would work.  open cell, closed cell,  it does not  have to be structural in nature.

  

 even if you made some aluminum ribs, glued them to  the legs with  jb weld or similar,,,  and fitted them to a 5/16  trailing edge,  you could cover it with fabric and iron it tight,   then paint.    I was just trying to think outside the box, and  less weight than plastic strut cover,  

  

 mike when you get the idea perfected, let us in on  the possibilities.

  

 boyd young

 mkiii utah



   [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

Boyd, The Rutan canards and other aircraft that use a hot wire to cut out airfoil shapes use styrofoam (polystyrene foam) because it is produced with steam and releases water vapor when cut. It will handle epoxy resins as noted above, but not Polyester resin or any solvents. Gasoline also melts it. Urethane foam, which was used for the Varieze fuselage panels gives off cyanide gas when cut with a hot wire, definitely hazardous to your health. It does shape with sandpaper fairly easily.  Divinycell foam is used for the LongEZE fuselage. It is compatible with Polyester, Vinylester, and Epoxy resins. I've not tried to hot wire it and it isn't listed on DIAB's website as a manufacturing method. It can be sanded to shape but it's a lot tougher than urethane. 



Rick



On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:18 PM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          I don't mean to be a wet blanket on Boyd's PBI, but Styrofoam will not  stand up to Poly Fiber chemicals whose major solvent is MEK. Instead, coat the  Styrofoam with a mix of epoxy resin and microballoons then wrap with polyester  cloth. After the resin has cured, pull the cloth off. To fill any pinholes  remaining, use pure resin applied with a brush and scrapped with a single edge  razor blade. Repeat this last step as necessary (depending on how much of a  perfectionist you are) until you get the finish you want. Take care with your  selection of paints as any holes in the epoxy will allow the solvent to attack  the foam. Polyurethane paints are usually safe.  



 Rick

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 
	


rick and others

  

 that is why I mentioned Styrofoam,  or other  foam not affected by polly products,  ( I figured Styrofoam would be  affected by the polly juice, pun intended,   not sure if it will even  handle some epoxy resins)    there are blue and green insulating  foam boards,  polystyrene???      I believe that  some of the long easy, vary easy,  and other fiberglass kits use  foam,  it may take a bit of research, but I am sure there is some type of  combination that would work.  open cell, closed cell,  it does not  have to be structural in nature.

  

 even if you made some aluminum ribs, glued them to  the legs with  jb weld or similar,,,  and fitted them to a 5/16  trailing edge,  you could cover it with fabric and iron it tight,   then paint.    I was just trying to think outside the box, and  less weight than plastic strut cover,  

  

 mike when you get the idea perfected, let us in on  the possibilities.

  

 boyd young

 mkiii utah



    	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Gang,

  I made some a few years ago and just covered them  with the shrink fit stuff that they cover model airplanes with. You can get it  in the colors that you want and it is easy to work with. Quick and easy, just  not as durable as the plastic or metal ones.

 Larry

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,  which includes my email address.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: Strut Fairings

Now that's a great idea.  Thanks.BB



On 8, Oct 2011, at 5:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

[quote]Gang,

 I made some a few years ago and just covered them with the shrink fit stuff that they cover model airplanes with. You can get it in the colors that you want and it is easy to work with. Quick and easy, just not as durable as the plastic or metal ones.

Larry

 

Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.

[quote]---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

 	  Dennis Thate wrote: 	
		  

Richard,



  How about a close up photo of this stream lined landing gear idea, is it riveted like the wing strut covers ? 	




Here ye be! These are the plastic lift strut fairings that Kolb sells, cut down to fit. I make paper templates of how I want the top and bottom to fit, do the bottom first, and the top last. 



Jack the airplane up and remove the bolt that holds the gear leg in place, slip the fairing over the leg and then put the gear leg back in the socket. Do the bottom first, a Moto-Tool works well. Then with the leg slid most of the way in to where it needs to be in the socket, make the upper template out of paper and trace it on the leg. Keep cutting it off a bit at a time until the leg goes in far enough for the bolt to fit. I probably put each gear leg in and out 25 times.... groan... A tedious process, but gives decent results. 



Because of how the fairing slips over the top and bottom hardware, it does not need to be anchored to anything, it cannot rotate or move enough to matter. I ran my brake line down the inside of mine.  Just a word of warning - mine were not symmetrical, the templates for one side were close for the other, but not quite. Why?  - ??? So don't assume.

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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Strut Fairings

Thanks Richard for taking the time to get and post the photos. Was the benefit worth the effort & cost ?

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: Strut Fairings

My gear legs are the thin tapered solid spring steel legs. I used a insulating product in a can called Tough Stuff. Applied it to the front and back of the gear legs and used a knife to cut it into the basic stream line shape when dry then sanded for more precise shape. Then I mixed micro balloons and epoxie to fill holes and smooth out the surface. I was a bit impatient and it doesn't look very good so I will not send any photos. With more care it would be fine. It was quick and easy. My gear legs are small but I didn't notice any improvement in speeds. 



I use Great Stuff for lots of things. Even used it to fill the fuselage tube to stop the leaf blower effect. Big mistake. I almost broke the control cables trying to free them up from the foam. It did stop the air movement. 

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Dennis Thate <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>

  

 Thanks Richard for taking the time to get and post the photos. Was the benefit worth the effort & cost ?

 

 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern

 

 …”These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on…” Unknown

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354537#354537

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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