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Oil (API-TC)

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David d.

Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Fitzgerald Ga.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:37 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

I have downloaded the ops manual for my Rotax 582.  All it says about the oil to use is to use API TC.

Now I certainly do not want to start a "brand to use" debate.

Just what does the TC encompass. 

Such as blended or straight

Multi viscosity?

Can it be labeled for motorcycle with no mention of aircraft 2cy.



TIA

David d.

_________________
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

At 06:37 AM 10/14/2011, SS568 wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>



 I have downloaded the ops manual for my Rotax 582.  All it says about the oil to use is to use API TC.

 Now I certainly do not want to start a "brand to use" debate.

 Just what does the TC encompass. 

 Such as blended or straight

 Multi viscosity?

 Can it be labeled for motorcycle with no mention of aircraft 2cy. 	


 It's a industry specification for air cooled 2-stroke oil.  Not multi viscosity, that's a 4 stroke oil thing.  Pennzoil aircooled oil is one brand of API TC oil, whereas the Pennzoil marine is not (the marine oil is TC-W3 which is for water cooled engines).  Could be sold as a bike oil but I believe most bike oils are synthetic now.



 -Dana



 

 --

 When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no pollution.  The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all day.  Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to "improve" the place.

    [quote][b]

David d.

Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Fitzgerald Ga.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Oil (API-TC)

I went by Oriely parts store this morning.  They have only one brand (not house oil).

It said "exceeds the TC rating.  It is a blended oil.  Does it hurt to mix blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC?



This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road.



DD

_________________
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

I went by Oriely parts store this morning.  They have only one brand (not 

house oil).

It said "exceeds the TC rating.  It is a blended oil.  Does it hurt to mix 

blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC?



This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road.



DD



--------

Kolb Mark IIIX  582 Blue head



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


some oils are not compatable with each other and will jell up in the oil 

tank causing oil starvation,,,  you should try and remove all the old oil 

before adding the new.



boyd young

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

I sent this to the group in June;



Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of Air Cooled is nearly gone. This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air Cooled CANNOT be mixed with Marine or any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already).

 So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s).

Rick Girard



 On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:00 AM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)>

 

 

 I went by Oriely parts store this morning.  They have only one brand (not house oil).

 It said "exceeds the TC rating.  It is a blended oil.  Does it hurt to mix blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC?

 

 This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road.

 

 DD

 

 --------

 Kolb Mark IIIX  582 Blue head

 

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 some oils are not compatable with each other and will jell up in the oil tank causing oil starvation,,,  you should try and remove all the old oil before adding the new.

 

 boyd young 



 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

At 10:23 AM 10/14/2011, Richard Girard wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I sent this to the group in June;



 Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of Air Cooled is nearly gone.

 This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air Cooled CANNOT be mixed with Marine or any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already).

 So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s). 	


 Shell seems to have replaced the Air Cooled Outdoor oil with the new "Aeroshell Sport 2" 2-stroke oil.  Whether this is the same oil with a new name, or something new, is unclear, as is whether they are compatible.  I'm trying to contact Shell to ask, but their website is messed up.



 -Dana

 --

 New Yorkers like to boast that if you can survive in New York, you can survive anywhere. But if you can survive anywhere, why live in New York?   

    [quote][b]

David d.

Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Fitzgerald Ga.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Oil (API-TC)

Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of Air Cooled is nearly gone. This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air Cooledï¿½CANNOTï¿½be mixed with Marine or any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already).

So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s).

Rick Girard 



Rick, with all due respect the above is still confusing.  Mixing tc-w with any air cooled is a no no. Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the problem. Now I suppose mixing could cause coagulation, but it should not ever be used any way.

Since I am not sure of what is in the reservoir now I will drain the old out.



Now the statement about air cooled (tc) is no longer available, so what is the intended new oil?



By the way is mixing brands  allowed as long as it is TC oil?



DD

_________________
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the

problem.  



DD



 

Folks:



Not arguing any of the above reference brands, types, etc.



We used Walmart TCW-3 for well over 1,000 hours in our 582, 503, 447, and

all the other air and watercooled two strokes, from weed whackers to

kickers, with nary a problem.  Some of that oil was 15 years old.



My question is:  How does a two stroke know if the oil is air cooled or

water cooled?



john h

Window Rock, Arizona

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Oil (API-TC)

Ok guys,

here is a resource that you may find helpful regarding your 2-stroke oil questions.



http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

Same experience here, John. My only contact with Pennzoil Air Cooled in the rotary valve reservoir of my 582 and in both reservoirs of a customers 582. Whatever difference TC-W3 makes except the coagulation issue, I have no idea. 



Rick



On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:00 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 

 

 

   Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the

 problem.

 

 

DD

 

 

 Folks:

 

 Not arguing any of the above reference brands, types, etc.

 

 We used Walmart TCW-3 for well over 1,000 hours in our 582, 503, 447, and

 all the other air and watercooled two strokes, from weed whackers to

 kickers, with nary a problem.  Some of that oil was 15 years old.

 

 My question is:  How does a two stroke know if the oil is air cooled or

 water cooled?

 

 john h

 Window Rock, Arizona

 



 

 

 

 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: Oil (API-TC)

Here is another good report on two  stroke oil:

  

 www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

  

  Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

  In a message dated 10/14/2011 2:15:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  etzimm(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kolb-List message posted by: "Eugene Zimmerman"    <etzimm(at)gmail.com>



Ok guys,

here is a resource that you may    find helpful regarding your 2-stroke oil    questions.



http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf





Read    this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355026#355026

    

    

	


 [quote][b]

David d.

Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Fitzgerald Ga.

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Oil (API-TC)

Thanks Bill for that article.

And thanks to all that responded.

I will use only API-TC.  After all that is exactly what the manual says.

David d.

_________________
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head

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