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Trevpond(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: ballistic Parachute |
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Hi Ivor,
I believe one of the Flying magazines were building a Europa with a Ballistic Parachute Recovery System. I wonder if the one you saw was it.
best regards
Trev
G-LINN
In a message dated 16/10/2011 21:17:13 GMT Daylight Time, ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com writes:
| Quote: |
I came across a tri gear at Lelystad Holland fitted with a Ballistic parachute, thought it may be of
interest so a couple of picture's attached,
regards
Ivor
G-IVER |
[quote][b]
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Ivor Phillips
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: ballistic Parachute |
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Hi Trev
No that was the Flyer magazine and that aircraft is still being built without the parachute at this time.
regards
ivor
On 17 October 2011 10:50, <Trevpond(at)aol.com (Trevpond(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hi Ivor,
I believe one of the Flying magazines were building a Europa with a Ballistic Parachute Recovery System. I wonder if the one you saw was it.
best regards
Trev
G-LINN
In a message dated 16/10/2011 21:17:13 GMT Daylight Time, ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com (ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com) writes:
| Quote: |
I came across a tri gear at Lelystad Holland fitted with a Ballistic parachute, thought it may be of
interest so a couple of picture's attached,
regards
Ivor
G-IVER |
| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: ballistic Parachute |
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Trev
The Flyer Europa with ballistic parachute was never completed and the unit was removed from the fuselage. That aircraft has a new owner and work is in progress to complete it.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
[quote][b]
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Gary.Leinberger(at)miller
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: ballistic Parachute |
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I looked very carefully at putting a ballistic chute on my Europa – the real problem is that you would have to totally re-engineer the plane – the forces involved in slowing the plane from 150 mph to essentially zero are amazing. The other problem is that you basically destroy the plane because you need to put the harness at the proper angle, with enough room for “swing” and deployment. Putting it outside (like on the picture) affects aerodynamics, and could lead to problems of weathering of these harnesses over time. On the Cirrus, the plane is destroyed if the chute is deployed – the entire top is ripped apart and apparently the rest of the plane is so distorted by the shock of opening the chute that you are better off ordering a new plane. I guess you could make it strong enough to be reusable, but then, of course, it won’t fly which would also increase your safety. J
These chutes are not benign devices – on my KitFox Lite I have a ballistic chute – it is deployed by firing off what is essentially a mortar shell to get the chute properly deployed – which means you have an explosion right next to the plastic fuel tank right behind me. I think before deploying it, I would have to be in a very tense situation – if it was just an engine out I would probably take my chances landing (I have empirically tested this – it was unplanned but worked out) rather than fire off a mortar shell next to a gas tank.
While these chutes have saved lives, they really only work in very specific situations – for example, a in-flight wing failure – if you remember to stop the prop, and can get the chute deployed without tangling in the wreckage or the prop.
A chute does you no good on the two major accident situations (maybe 90% of accidents?) – landing and take-off – in neither case do you have sufficient time for the chute to deploy – even if you are very quick to analyze the problem.
The real insurance is to build it right, don’t fly it beyond its performance envelope, and stay out of bad weather.
Gary Leinberger
A237
Waiting for Paint
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:49 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: ballistic Parachute
Trev
The Flyer Europa with ballistic parachute was never completed and the unit was removed from the fuselage. That aircraft has a new owner and work is in progress to complete it.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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[quote][b]
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: ballistic Parachute |
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On 10/17/2011 07:55 PM, Gary Leinberger wrote:
| Quote: | I looked very carefully at putting a ballistic chute on my Europa
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I went through the same mental exercise, with the same outcome. Apart
from affecting the plane in a negative way (you forgot to mention the
weight disadvantage; it eats up all bagage weight), I couldn't really
imagine many realistic situations in which I would (be able to) deploy
the chute. Given the fact that it destroys the aircraft (if it is not
during deployment then it is during the uncontrolled touch down
somewhere on a rock, tree or building) I would not be so enthousiastic
to pull the pin out of the mortar if it would "just" be an engine
failure, or "just" an IMC encounter, or anything else where there would
still be any hope to come out unscathed.
I would deploy it during an engine failure over sea, or maybe during an
engine failure in the mountains without any suitable landing spot. I
doubt it could be deployed after a structural failure in flight (I
imagine the roll rate of the plane would be instantly enormous if some
piece of wing would depart the airplane) or during an in flight
collision (given the cruise speed of the Europa it is doubtful if anyone
would be able to press a button after the event, providing there is some
structural integrity left after the collision to either reach the chute
and to carry the wreckage after deployment.)
Most of the arguments apply equally well to personal chutes.
Frans
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John Wighton
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: Re: ballistic Parachute |
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I did the original engineering analysis on the ballistic chute installation and helped Miles McCallum make the design changes to the FLYER Europa.
We attached the chute strops to the engine frame and the area around the aft pins. The idea being to support the airframe in a level attitude. The installation of the chute cannister was to the D-ring. The straps were to be buried in channels moulded into the skin (therefore making a joggle for all running loads in the fuselage). This was not good and caused local bending which had to be reinforced with more material (thereby increasing the offset/joggle). The loads were high (but controlled due to the BRS furling ring).
The exist hatch for the chute was catered for in the usual way - by means of a ring reinforement.
The whole thing had to be designed, stressed and re-designed about 10 times, then BRS changed the cannister shape, etc.
Miles then decided to can it (pun!)and we concentrated on the taildragger (reversed maingear legs) design and sressing. As Ian says the project lives on and will hopefully be completed soon. The aircraft syle is lovely with the reverse raked gear legs, much nicer than the swiss versions l have seen (and without all that weight).
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| Description: |
| Europa taildragger with reversed m MLG legs. |
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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD |
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