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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
[url=tel:831-722-9141]831-722-9141[/url] Shop
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] Cell
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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Wat caused the leak? Loose nut? Bad flare? Cracked tube?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Linn
On 10/21/2011 2:31 PM, Dave Saylor wrote: | Quote: | Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit.Â
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snip
[quote]
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
[url=tel:831-722-9141]831-722-9141[/url] Shop
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] Cell
[b]
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davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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Thanks Dave, good info. Did you find the source of the leak? Cracked flare or what? Did you use Del Seals on your flares? Mine is all plumbed and I decided to keep to the stock aluminum fittings and tubing instead of hoses to keep weight and costs down to a minimum. Those little things add up quick weight wise and from experience building a Cozy MKIV, weight adds up really quick with any deviations to plans. FWIW, we used all aluminum fuel lines and fittings for the fuel system in the cockpit on the Cozy and used Del Seals on all the flares on everything, FWF and aft including oil lines. Over 300 hours so far with no leaks. Careful attention to your flaring technique's for quality flares, fitting alignment, and proper torque, are key ingredients to a simple, light weight, low cost plumbing system. Plumbing the brakes and fuel delivery system in the tunnel of the -10 gave me fits and I was tempted more that once to just order up some hoses, but every time I thought about the weight penalty kept me motivated to keep to plans and I am glad I spent the time fabricating and scraping lots of tubing until I got it right. Regardless, I WILL seal up the flap motor just in case!
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "Dave Saylor" <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 2:31:20 PM
Subject: Fuel Leak
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
[url=tel:831-722-9141]831-722-9141[/url] Shop
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] Cell
[quote][b]
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taildragon(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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Dave,
Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tightening or tube replacement?
Roger
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:31:20 -0700
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
[quote][b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it. The leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed when I upgraded to the Andair about three years ago.
I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley <taildragon(at)msn.com (taildragon(at)msn.com)> wrote:
[quote] Dave,
Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tightening or tube replacement?
Roger
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:31:20 -0700
Subject: Fuel Leak
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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billz
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Clinton, New York
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Leak |
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Thank you for the information on the flap motor. It's a step in the right direction and I plan to make the changes.
Many aircraft designs also provide a means of venting areas that may accumulate fumes (fuel/hydraulics/etc.) from the aircraft. Larger aircraft are required to have positive ventilation in these areas. Although the RV-10 doesn't have any major issues in this area, I decided to take some proactive steps to provide some separation between the fuel lines and the rest of the tunnel and also add a small amount of ventilation. I installed an aft facing vent on the bottom of the fuselage, directly under the fuel valve. This should create a small amount of negative pressure in the tunnel and draw any fumes out. I plan to enclose the area that has fuel lines/pump/filter with some easily removable insulation material. The insulation will be self supporting, easily removed and secured with velcro. Again, like the flap motor upgrade, this is not a perfect fix, but should improve the odds in case there is a small fuel leak. Attached are pictures of the fuselage vent.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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philperry9(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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I'd like to find a direct replacement for the standard motor that is brushless. That's always been my thought.
I suppose I could call the manufacturer and see if they could sell an equivalent motor in brushless form.
Phil
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:48 PM, billz <billz(at)roadrunner.com (billz(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "billz" <billz(at)roadrunner.com (billz(at)roadrunner.com)>
Thank you for the information on the flap motor. It's a step in the right direction and I plan to make the changes.
Many aircraft designs also provide a means of venting areas that may accumulate fumes (fuel/hydraulics/etc.) from the aircraft. Larger aircraft are required to have positive ventilation in these areas. Although the RV-10 doesn't have any major issues in this area, I decided to take some proactive steps to provide some separation between the fuel lines and the rest of the tunnel and also add a small amount of ventilation. I installed an aft facing vent on the bottom of the fuselage, directly under the fuel valve. This should create a small amount of negative pressure in the tunnel and draw any fumes out. I plan to enclose the area that has fuel lines/pump/filter with some easily removable insulation material. The insulation will be self supporting, easily removed and secured with velcro. Again, like the flap motor upgrade, this is not a perfect fix, but should improve the odds in case there is a small fuel leak. Attached are pictures of the fuselage vent.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355701#355701
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1382_571.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1381_769.jpg
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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I'm pretty sure the tubing was 3003.
--Dave
On Oct 21, 2011, at 16:54, "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> wrote:
[quote] Dave
One question on the tubing. Was it the 3002 tube van supplies that’s real soft, for was it 5052 standard certified aircraft tubing.
I have seen the 3000 series tubes leak over time way more so than the 5052 type.
Also, I think you are dead on with the plugging of the holes on the flap motor. Great idea. I will for sure do that on mine when I get to that point
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jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: Fuel Leak |
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Thanks Dave
40864 Winds debur Top skins frep for primer
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 7:25 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Leak
I'm pretty sure the tubing was 3003.
--Dave
On Oct 21, 2011, at 16:54, "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net (jcumins(at)jcis.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave
One question on the tubing. Was it the 3002 tube van supplies that’s real soft, for was it 5052 standard certified aircraft tubing.
I have seen the 3000 series tubes leak over time way more so than the 5052 type.
Also, I think you are dead on with the plugging of the holes on the flap motor. Great idea. I will for sure do that on mine when I get to that point.
Thanks for all the great information that you pass on the list as you become aware of it.
<image001.jpg>
John Cumins
President
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 1:50 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fuel Leak
I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it. The leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed when I upgraded to the Andair about three years ago.
I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley <taildragon(at)msn.com (taildragon(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Dave,
Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tightening or tube replacement?
Roger
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:31:20 -0700
Subject: Fuel Leak
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
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