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koxxy
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Beaverton, OR
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 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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I know the Kolbra will fly on 65 HP (Rotax 582, Hirth 3203), but I want to eventually put it on floats, and 65HP will not get me off the water with a passenger. 80HP Jabirus and Rotax 912 are out of my price range (any good used ones out there?). But the Sonex AeroVee (air cooled, direct-drive VW conversion) is affordable and economical, plus very inexpensive to overhaul. Sonex says "161 lbs complete" (starter, alternator, carb, exhaust pipes but evidently no muffler). Jabiru 2200 comes in at 138 lbs "ramp weight", also presumably without muffler. I think I can give up 23 lbs of payload to save approx $6,000 (the AeroVee comes as a kit, but I like to build). Is anyone flying an AeroVee?
Martin
PS: any Kolb flyers / builders around NW Oregon?
[quote][b]
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tkben002
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Here is my take.
I have a Kolbra with a Jabiru 2200 and it is the only experience I have with the Kolb line. It works and I get decent performance but I do not get the spectacular performance numbers I read about from people who have a reduction drive engine (rotax, HKS or whatever). There is a reason for this and to put it simple, a geared engine drives a larger prop at a slower rpm and is more efficient and gives better performance.
That being said the performance is not bad, just not ideal. I like the Jabiru so far and it gives me a decent payload due to the light weight. I know it will not perform like a Rotax and I am ok with that.
I could not imagine adding about 50 pounds of engine and 100 pounds of floats and think I would be happy with it. I do not imagine you would be far from gross and that is without a passenger. Then if you do not use the reduction on the vw you will have even worse performance then the direct drive Jabiru. The reduction adds about another 20 pounds but you can ask as I know there is atleast one on a kolb on the list.
I just think this sounds like a recipe for disappointment (it can be done but you won't like the results)
Travis Bennett
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> I flew direct drive VW in a mkIII for four years, you wouldn't be happy. Also the VW mount doesn't fit the Kolbra.Rick Neilsen
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®From: Martin Koxxy <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com>
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:54:03 -0700
To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: engine choice for Kolbra
I know the Kolbra will fly on 65 HP (Rotax 582, Hirth 3203), but I wan= t to eventually put it on floats, and 65HP will not get me off the water wi= th a passenger. 80HP Jabirus and Rotax 912 are out of my price range (any g= ood used ones out there?). But the Sonex AeroVee (air cooled, direct-drive= =A0VW conversion) is affordable and economical, plus very inexpensive to ov= erhaul. Sonex says "161 lbs complete" (starter, alternator, carb,= =A0exhaust pipes but evidently no muffler). Jabiru 2200 comes in at 138 lbs= "ramp weight", also presumably without muffler. I think I can gi= ve up 23 lbs of payload to save approx $6,000 (the AeroVee comes as a kit, = but I like to build). Is anyone flying an AeroVee?
=A0
Martin
=A0
PS: any Kolb flyers / builders around NW Oregon?
[quote][b]
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ces308
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Sonex AeroVee (air cooled, direct-drive�VW conversion) is affordable and economical, plus very inexpensive to overhaul. Sonex says "161 lbs complete" (starter, alternator, carb,�exhaust pipes but evidently no muffler
Be very careful...I have a friend that put one in his Highlander and the motor was junk and sonex would do nothing for him....If you would like to talk to him email me for his number and talk to him !!
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru A-2200 235. hrs
N327CS
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koxxy
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Beaverton, OR
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Thanks everyone who chimed in on engine choice, on-list and off. Re-drive type engines seem to have an advantage when it comes to developing torque at low prop RPM, which is the main concern for water operation. But unless I can find a used 912ULS, a 4-stroke Rotax is out of my price range. Guess I'll be looking at small auto conversions or Hirths with re-drives.
Martin
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:14 PM, tkben002 <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)>
Here is my take.
I have a Kolbra with a Jabiru 2200 and it is the only experience I have with the Kolb line. It works and I get decent performance but I do not get the spectacular performance numbers I read about from people who have a reduction drive engine (rotax, HKS or whatever). There is a reason for this and to put it simple, a geared engine drives a larger prop at a slower rpm and is more efficient and gives better performance.
That being said the performance is not bad, just not ideal. I like the Jabiru so far and it gives me a decent payload due to the light weight. I know it will not perform like a Rotax and I am ok with that.
I could not imagine adding about 50 pounds of engine and 100 pounds of floats and think I would be happy with it. I do not imagine you would be far from gross and that is without a passenger. Then if you do not use the reduction on the vw you will have even worse performance then the direct drive Jabiru. The reduction adds about another 20 pounds but you can ask as I know there is atleast one on a kolb on the list.
Travis Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355689#355689
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Check out the Viking engine. You could be the first on a Kolb!BB
On 23, Oct 2011, at 12:48 PM, Martin Koxxy wrote:
[quote]Thanks everyone who chimed in on engine choice, on-list and off. Re-drive type engines seem to have an advantage when it comes to developing torque at low prop RPM, which is the main concern for water operation. But unless I can find a used 912ULS, a 4-stroke Rotax is out of my price range. Guess I'll be looking at small auto conversions or Hirths with re-drives.
Martin
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:14 PM, tkben002 <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)>
Here is my take.
I have a Kolbra with a Jabiru 2200 and it is the only experience I have with the Kolb line. It works and I get decent performance but I do not get the spectacular performance numbers I read about from people who have a reduction drive engine (rotax, HKS or whatever). There is a reason for this and to put it simple, a geared engine drives a larger prop at a slower rpm and is more efficient and gives better performance.
That being said the performance is not bad, just not ideal. I like the Jabiru so far and it gives me a decent payload due to the light weight. I know it will not perform like a Rotax and I am ok with that.
I could not imagine adding about 50 pounds of engine and 100 pounds of floats and think I would be happy with it. I do not imagine you would be far from gross and that is without a passenger. Then if you do not use the reduction on the vw you will have even worse performance then the direct drive Jabiru. The reduction adds about another 20 pounds but you can ask as I know there is atleast one on a kolb on the list.
Travis Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355689#355689
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
[b]
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kenw
Joined: 01 Oct 2015
Posts: 25
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: Re: engine choice for Kolbra |
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What did you decide on your engine selection?
ken - markIII classic
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Given any thought to Rotax Rick? Not that I have any direct experience, but the claims sound pretty good...
https://rotaxrick.wordpress.com/
And as a long time user of non-ethanol fuel, I disagree with a lot of what he says...
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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robpen5557(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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I’’m. New. To the matronics so is there a website or is everything just direct contact through email. I’m looking for info about the constant use of the folding wings? I posted a query but I’m really not sure how to see my post or any responses?
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Welcome to the list on behalf of all of us. I didn't see your post, so I would guess that it didn't arrive where it was supposed to go.
I folded my Firestar for at least 10 years and stored it in a trailer that I built. Quite frankly other than self inflicted wounds by yourself there is no reason that folding would ever cause any damage. Of course the more people you have helping you will up the odds quite a bit.
If you are in the building process make sure that it slips into the tube that holds it to the boom tube easily the first time every time. I flared the end of the tube that the male part slips into. I also drilled the hole that you slip the pin into to hold it so that it faced the back of the plane. I secured the pins to a three foot dowel rod so that I could pin it without laying down and crawling under the wing.
Larry
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)>
I’’m. New. To the matronics so is there a website or is everything just direct contact through email. I’m looking for info about the constant use of the folding wings? I posted a query but I’m really not sure how to see my post or any responses?
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:50 AM, kenw <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kenw" <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)>
>
> What did you decide on your engine selection?
> ken - markIII classic
>
> --------
> kenw
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476070#476070
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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robpen5557(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Thanks Larry, I haven’t done anything I’m in the research phase. I don’t expect to make any purchases for at least a year. I figure I need about 20k to allow for any purchases and extras, like trailers. I would have to have someone build a trailer for me. But, from what I have seen there are plenty of examples of great trailers. I would really like to first figure out how this website works, for posting etc. and then find someone nearby to see their plane and gets some up close exposure to the KOLB. I live in Waskom, TX and work in Shreveport, LA. I currently fly out of Downtown Airport KDTN a group of EAA members have a club plane an Aeronca Chief. Which we (7) pilots fly the plane. So, If there was a place not to far I could fly over and check things out. Thanks Again for your help Larry
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
On Dec 3, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Welcome to the list on behalf of all of us. I didn't see your post, so I would guess that it didn't arrive where it was supposed to go.
I folded my Firestar for at least 10 years and stored it in a trailer that I built. Quite frankly other than self inflicted wounds by yourself there is no reason that folding would ever cause any damage. Of course the more people you have helping you will up the odds quite a bit.
If you are in the building process make sure that it slips into the tube that holds it to the boom tube easily the first time every time. I flared the end of the tube that the male part slips into. I also drilled the hole that you slip the pin into to hold it so that it faced the back of the plane. I secured the pins to a three foot dowel rod so that I could pin it without laying down and crawling under the wing.
Larry
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)>
I’’m. New. To the matronics so is there a website or is everything just direct contact through email. I’m looking for info about the constant use of the folding wings? I posted a query but I’m really not sure how to see my post or any responses?
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:50 AM, kenw <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kenw" <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)>
>
> What did you decide on your engine selection?
> ken - markIII classic
>
> --------
> kenw
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476070#476070
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
====================================
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: engine choice for Kolbra |
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Heck of a deal in Elkins W.Va. Classic MkIII and 912 S engine....180 or so hours total... 304 642 0070  Name is Mike... Herb
On 12/03/2017 06:35 PM, Robert Lobdell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks Larry, I haven’t done anything I’m in the research phase.  I don’t expect to make any purchases for at least a year.  I figure I need about 20k to allow for any purchases and extras, like trailers.  I would have to have someone build a trailer for me.  But, from what I have seen there are plenty of examples of great trailers.  I would really like to first figure out how this website works, for posting etc.  and then find someone nearby to see their plane and gets some up close exposure to the KOLB.  I live in Waskom, TX and work in Shreveport, LA.  I currently fly out of Downtown Airport KDTN a group of EAA members have a club plane an Aeronca Chief.  Which we (7) pilots fly the plane.  So, If there was a place not to far I could fly over and check things out.  Thanks Again for your help Larry
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Â Landing is the first!
On Dec 3, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Welcome to the list on behalf of all of us. I didn't see your post, so I would guess that it didn't arrive where it was supposed to go.
I folded my Firestar for at least 10 years and stored it in a trailer that I built. Quite frankly other than self inflicted wounds by yourself there is no reason that folding would ever cause any damage. Of course the more people you have helping you will up the odds quite a bit.
If you are in the building process make sure that it slips into the tube that holds it to the boom tube easily the first time every time. I flared the end of the tube that the male part slips into. I also drilled the hole that you slip the pin into to hold it so that it faced the back of the plane. I secured the pins to a three foot dowel rod so that I could pin it without laying down and crawling under the wing.
Larry
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Lobdell <robpen5557(at)gmail.com (robpen5557(at)gmail.com)>
I’’m. New. To the matronics so is there a website or is everything just direct contact through email. I’m looking for info about the constant use of the folding wings? I posted a query but I’m really not sure how to see my post or any responses?
Robert Lobdell
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:50 AM, kenw <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kenw" <worthken67(at)gmail.com (worthken67(at)gmail.com)>
>
> What did you decide on your engine selection?
> ken - markIII classic
>
> --------
> kenw
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476070#476070
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
====================================
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
|
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Ralph B
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: Re: engine choice for Kolbra |
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I have owned both the 912 80hp and the 912 100hp on my Kolbra. The 80hp was stolen along with my full panel and everything else. Everyone here knows that story and I won't talk about it.
The 80hp 912 worked fine with a passenger, but once the 100hp was installed, I found that is the engine for the Kolbra! It climbs better, takes off much quicker, and cruises faster (90-100mph).
I found my 912 100hp on Barnstormers for $10,000. I know it's a lot to pay for an engine, but I actually came out of retirement and went back to work for 6 months just to buy an engine. Was it worth it?
YES!
You can see the performance in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCSI_ruRmac&t=9s
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Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours |
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