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Motor glider Wings

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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi all,



Just enquiring if anyone has built the glider wings for a monowheel  "classic" ?

Thinking of doing a glider licence with my son and maybe build the glider wings for

ZK-TIM.

Any information and views would be much appreciated.



Cheers,



Tim



Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch,  8052

New Zealand.



ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



Ph 64 3 3515166

Mob 0210640221

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Tim

Watching with some interest

JR (Bob) Gowing Kit 327 in Oz 



--

flyingphil2

Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Motor glider Wings

That's an interesting question.  Has the Europa motor glider ever been flown by any gliding pundits and reviewed?  I've not seen any.



Also, I seem to remember John or Roger at Europa telling me that that the forward pin on the Classic wing would need moving (to the XS position????) in order to take the glider wing.  I could be wrong but check that with the people that know.  I'm sure Roger said there was a procedure in progress for it.

richard.churchill-coleman
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Phil



There is a review in Today's Pilot, Issue 21, July 2002 - it sits in the

smallest room of my house for regular perusal and motivational purposes -

sadly, the motivation effect is somewhat negated by the glacial speed of the

factory in resolving the last few issues with the Motor Glider certification

in the UK!



Richard C-C



--

iancook_1(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi Guys,

             Just to let you know we only have to do one more spinning

sortie to complete the UK Motor Glider Flight Test Programme. There will of

course be a further delay while all the data is analysed by the LAA but it

should all be finished before the end of the year.



Regards



Ian Cook

G-CBHI



--

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi Ian,



As it sounds as though there have already been in tests done, how does it it spin and recover?

Any surprises?



Cheers and thx,

Pete

A239 (both wings)



On Oct 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Ian Cook <iancook_1(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Hi Guys,

             Just to let you know we only have to do one more spinning

 sortie to complete the UK Motor Glider Flight Test Programme. There will of

 course be a further delay while all the data is analysed by the LAA but it

 should all be finished before the end of the year.

 

 Regards

 

 Ian Cook

 G-CBHI

 

 --

iancook_1(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi Pete,

           The flying aspects of the Forward and Mid C of G spin cases are

complete with some analysis work to be done before going onto the Aft C of G

case. From the quick review of data to date, all OK so far with NO

unexpected results.



Ian

--

neveyre(at)aol.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi,

   The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic.

   Remove the pins with heat and Mole grips [ with a cloth wrap if you are going to re use the pins].Mask the root rib with thick card and alloy foil, get the pin hot quick, and quench the root rib with a wet towel ASAP.

   Grind the Bid off the face of the alloy plate stack with a B&D Fingerfile, keep grinding on the alloy to get heat into the plate, ping it off with a chisel. Keep going on the next two lots of Bid and plates.

   Feather and scuff sand the glass lay up on the root rib.

   Replace 3 new plates as per Manual.[XS] Drill / Tap for the pins as per Manual.

   Fuselage;

   Cut away the vertical stiffener [ foam / glass ] inside the cockpit, behind the lift socket.

   Unbolt the lift socket from the fuselage, sweat off with heat.

   The ''neat'' way now is to grind through the glass lay ups  on the inside to expose the alloy plate imbedded in the fuselage, and with the fingerfile sander, get heat into the alloy and dig that out, then replace the alloy / glass........ easy way is to fill the three holes with flox, a 4 Bid patch over the original plate, another plate , 4 Bid over the top of the plate, refer to Manual for the original instruction, usual deal regarding scuff sanding / flox etc.... 

   Fitting the socket to the fuselage is as per Manual, but it is a lot easier as with the drag pins engaged, and the spar pins in, there is no incedence setting to do.

   Replace the foam core that was removed, repair the stiffener skin, overlapping at least 2'' onto the original.

   Sounds drastic, but not as bad as you might think.

 

 

 

   --

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

On 10/27/2011 11:58 PM, Neville Eyre wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic.


	


When I was building my Europa I understood that it is possible to have 

both sets of wings and swap them as desired, and I anticipated for doing 

that in the future.

Is this still possible? From your description it looks like you have to 

relocate the lift sockets???? So you can't have both sets of wings and 

interchange them?



Frans

neveyre(at)aol.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hi Frans,

   Whichever wing that is fitted second[ MG or short] has to be retro fitted to have the same pin positions as the first wing.[ using the drilling bushes I devised back then].

   The original position of the forward Lift Pin on the Classic wing is too high to stay within

 the Airfoil Section of the MG Wing..... if you have XS wings you will not need to change the lift or drag socket positions, if you have Classic wings, the front pins and sockets will need to be lowered THEN you custom fit the pins into the MG wings to suit EXACTLY where the sockets are in YOUR particular fuselage. 

   Cheers,

   Nev. 

 

   --

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: Motor glider Wings

Hello, 

Having classic wings I was advised then to set the socket and classic forward wing lift pin exactly 12 mm lower than the original manual specifies. I just  managed to do so before drilling the holes! 

Cheers, 

Christoph Both 

#223 Classic (almost completed) 

Nova Scotia, Canada 

  

   

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neville Eyre

 Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:58 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Motor glider Wings 

 

   

Hi, 

  

The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic. 

  

Remove the pins with heat and Mole grips [ with a cloth wrap if you are going to re use the pins].Mask the root rib with thick card and alloy foil, get the pin  hot quick, and quench the root rib with a wet towel ASAP. 

  

Grind the Bid off the face of the alloy plate stack with a B&D Fingerfile, keep grinding on the alloy to get heat into the plate, ping it off with a chisel. Keep  going on the next two lots of Bid and plates. 

  

Feather and scuff sand the glass lay up on the root rib. 

  

Replace 3 new plates as per Manual.[XS] Drill / Tap for the pins as per Manual. 

  

Fuselage; 

  

Cut away the vertical stiffener [ foam / glass ] inside the cockpit, behind the lift socket. 

  

Unbolt the lift socket from the fuselage, sweat off with heat. 

  

The ''neat'' way now is to grind through the glass lay ups  on the inside to expose the alloy plate imbedded in the fuselage, and with the fingerfile sander,  get heat into the alloy and dig that out, then replace the alloy / glass........ easy way is to fill the three holes with flox, a 4 Bid patch over the original plate, another plate , 4 Bid over the top of the plate, refer to Manual for the original instruction,  usual deal regarding scuff sanding / flox etc....  

  

Fitting the socket to the fuselage is as per Manual, but it is a lot easier as with the drag pins engaged, and the spar pins in, there is no incedence setting  to do. 

  

Replace the foam core that was removed, repair the stiffener skin, overlapping at least 2'' onto the original. 

  

Sounds drastic, but not as bad as you might think.

 

  

  

--

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: Motor glider Wings

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frans,

 Allowances have been made and the new socket lines up with the old.   New pins for the short wings are necessary.  Spar cup concerns are not a  problem.  I'll do a group email and show the "How I did it" drawings.

  

 Regards,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: Motor glider Wings

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frans and others,  Attached above is a drawing of how to install a wing rigging alignment  device to replace the spar cups.  It just attaches to the back of the  fuselage. 



  

 Here is an excerpt from an email I sent to another Classic Owner (mono  wheel) from my tech support file from a while ago:

  

  There are a couple of things to look at with adapting the MG  Wings to the Classic.  

  

 First,  The Classic has the wing lift points set by the owner.   Measurements vary somewhat from plane to plane as we have differences in builder  abilities.  The leading edge of the glider wing is narrow and the molded in  attach point is smaller so the forward and aft sockets may not line up  acceptably with the glider wing lift pin attach points.

  

 Second,  the fuselage must have Mod 52 to structurally take the  stress of the motor glider wing loads.  (If the Classic wings do not have  Mod 74 then that must be done also for your own safety.)  Your task is  easier if the Mod 52 is not done.  If the mod 52 is in, just try the wing  rig first and see if the attach points will align, see below.  

  

 Third, should the glider wing fore or aft attachment  points not line up with the glider wing, don't fret:

 I have found it very easy to just move the attach points of the Classic  fuselage to the glider wing position and simply remove and replace the pins in  the Classic wing.  The reason it is easier, as it seems to mean changing 8  hard points, is that it is technically easy, it will make rigging and de-rigging  of the plane a snap and assure structural strength.  The Classic wing is  very easy to remove the pin attach points, and frankly I replace the aluminum  one inch strips with two inch strips making a stiffer attach point as in the XS  model.  The socket attachments are quick to change also.  Just unbolt  and gently heat and remove, then grind the glass down.  I pull out the  aluminum wing root plates and replace them, as it only takes a few minutes with  a dust mask and a grinder to remove.  Total time with a die grinder and 40  grit paper is about 2 hours to remove the wing attachments and 2 hours to  completely replace the aluminum plates with all the parts made up and on  hand.  It takes me 8 hours to remove the fuselage sockets and the glass and  wood spacers on the fuselage side and replace them to new.  Like I said, I  remove the aluminum plates imbedded in the fuselage if the holes are just too  far off.  Hopefully you don't have to.  If I have to, I grind away at  the skin over the aluminum plates in the side after the glass is removed  and allowing the now warm metal from grinding to detach from the inside  skin, or by using a bit of heat from a soldering gun and I apply a prying  force to the edge of the plate.  I make another aluminum plate and  install.  8-12 hours to remove and replace plus cure time.  So a  couple of days and you have a pristine fuselage side ready for a perfect  alignment of both wings.

  

 This is not a daunting task for me, but I am more familiar than the average  guy.  If your original builder did a precise job of aligning the pins on  the Classic, you may have no problem or only a problem with aligning the  front or the rear glider lift pin.  I have found one of them to be  just a bit high leaving the upper skin very close to the pin attach point with  the glider wing perfectly aligned.  We just did a Classic and I am  uncomfortably close to the top of the attachment area on the rear pin support,  instead of centered in the pin area.  If it were my plane I would have  centered the pins and moved the fuselage sockets, but I tend to prefer to shoot  for the optimum, and my clients are wanting the quick solution.

  

 Don't let a bit of glass work over a few days or a week keep you from  having the joy of a soaring airplane.  I can't tell you how enjoyable the  motor glider is.  I hope you saw my article in the Europa flyer on cross  country in the MG.  If not send me an email and I will send a .pdf  copy.  The mono with motor glider wing is carrying a hundred pounds of  extra wing weight so make sure your rubber block is new as your normal  touchdowns will need to absorb the extra mass.

  

  



 [quote]   ---

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