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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
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 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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Non-TSO avionics such as GPS, autopilots, and glass panels are much cheaper than the TSO'd or certificated goods. I wonder if ELTs are made non-TSO'd for our experimental aircraft? The cheapest ELT I see on Aircraft Spruce is nearly $1000 which is a lot for something I hope will never be used. Or do I shut up and pay?
RF
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skywagon
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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Ralph,
I believe that you can continue to use the older, 121.5Mhz., ELT's. They are cheap, especially via eBay or similar. However, as a negative, they can lead to a longer search period because they only send out an RF signal. On the plus side, many Airlines tune one of their receivers to this freq. and report when a signal is passed over. At least that alerts the emergency agents. The newer ELT's also still pump out 121.5 but, the the 430 freq. is monitored by overhead satellite receivers and the new style ELT put out GPS location. Thus, searches are nearly pin point on the money.
ELT's, autopilots,etc. are like an expensive insurance policy. You hope you never have to use it that way, but, when needed you would pay a 100x more for the saving service they provide. Dave
[quote] ---
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mmayfield
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 40
Location: NSW Central Coast, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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I think you will find that, like the case of transponders, any ELT fitted to any plane (experimental or otherwise) must comply with the relevant TSO (and not just be "stated to comply with" - it must actually be TSOd). There are good reasons for this. It is, after all, supposed to comply with specific standards so that it meets the same specs and interfaces correctly with SAR organisations wherever in the world your plane happens to be.
FAR 91.207 refers, and experimentals are not exempt generally. I think you can elect not to have one at all (not sure why anyone would do that), but this severely limits where you can fly your plane.
I believe "shutup and pay", as you say, is the answer.  However there is nothing to stop you shopping around. AC Spruce isn't always the cheapest place to buy stuff!
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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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I've done a bit more research.
- The ACK E-04 does seem the cheapest 406MHz ELT available, and has GPS input. I emailed Ack, Inc. to see if it will use the last received GPS update for location; if not--if it needs an active datastream to retransmit location to the SAR satellite--then the GPS input seems fairly useless as I would suppose the coax from GPS to ELT is probably going to be broken in a crash.
- A Kannad S1840501-02 406 AF Compact seems the cheapest 406MHz+integrated GPS around at $831 Aircraft Spruce.
- The other possibility, as mentioned below, is cheapo 121.5 MHz unit for legality, with APRS or PLB to actually be found. I already mounted an APRS in a wing tip and fully intend to be running that (I got a Tech Amateur Radio license long ago).
- Though, don't Canada, Mexico, and the Bahama require a 406 ELT to enter their countries?
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
>
| Quote: | The old 121.5's are indeed still legal, and typically available for ~$100 if you shop around.
I've heard (unverified) rumors that the new 430MHZ units have trouble transmitting through tree canopies. Wouldn't that be expensive irony.
>
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| Quote: | I intend to use the old style in the plane I'm building, & supplement it with an APRS (if you haven't heard of it, just do an internet search).
Charlie
On 11/03/2011 05:28 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
>
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| Quote: | Ralph,
I believe that you can continue to use the older, 121.5Mhz., ELT's. They are cheap, especially via eBay or similar. However, as a negative, they can lead to a longer search period because they only send out an RF signal. On the plus side, many Airlines tune one of their receivers to this freq. and report when a signal is passed over. At least that alerts the emergency agents. The newer ELT's also still pump out 121.5 but, the the 430 freq. is monitored by overhead satellite receivers and the new style ELT put out GPS location. Thus, searches are nearly pin point on the money.
|
[quote][b]
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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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Got a very prompt reply:
| Quote: |
"The ELT will retain the last GPS coordinates for one minute when disconnected from the GPS data source before it is activated and for 4 hours after it is activate.
Mike Akatiff" |
That pretty much does it for me, I think I'll get that model. Legal to travel to other countries; much more assurance with the 406MHz model that in a crash the SAR system will be alerted; and a good chance they'll have your last position with the GPS input.
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com (ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] I've done a bit more research.
- The ACK E-04 does seem the cheapest 406MHz ELT available, and has GPS input. I emailed Ack, Inc. to see if it will use the last received GPS update for location; if not--if it needs an active datastream to retransmit location to the SAR satellite--then the GPS input seems fairly useless as I would suppose the coax from GPS to ELT is probably going to be broken in a crash.
- A Kannad S1840501-02 406 AF Compact seems the cheapest 406MHz+integrated GPS around at $831 Aircraft Spruce.
- The other possibility, as mentioned below, is cheapo 121.5 MHz unit for legality, with APRS or PLB to actually be found. I already mounted an APRS in a wing tip and fully intend to be running that (I got a Tech Amateur Radio license long ago).
- Though, don't Canada, Mexico, and the Bahama require a 406 ELT to enter their countries?
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
>
| Quote: | The old 121.5's are indeed still legal, and typically available for ~$100 if you shop around.
I've heard (unverified) rumors that the new 430MHZ units have trouble transmitting through tree canopies. Wouldn't that be expensive irony.
>
|
| Quote: | I intend to use the old style in the plane I'm building, & supplement it with an APRS (if you haven't heard of it, just do an internet search).
Charlie
On 11/03/2011 05:28 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
>
|
| Quote: | Ralph,
I believe that you can continue to use the older, 121.5Mhz., ELT's. They are cheap, especially via eBay or similar. However, as a negative, they can lead to a longer search period because they only send out an RF signal. On the plus side, many Airlines tune one of their receivers to this freq. and report when a signal is passed over. At least that alerts the emergency agents. The newer ELT's also still pump out 121.5 but, the the 430 freq. is monitored by overhead satellite receivers and the new style ELT put out GPS location. Thus, searches are nearly pin point on the money.
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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riggs_la(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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Looks like the best place to get it is here:
http://www.airsuppliers.com/shop/search.asp?searchterm=ACK-E04
Lynn Riggs
riggs_la(at)yahoo.com (riggs_la(at)yahoo.com)
612-508-0988
http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p352107
http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p293990
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 9:01 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones?
Got a very prompt reply:
"The ELT will retain the last GPS coordinates for one minute when disconnected from the GPS data source before it is activated and for 4 hours after it is activate.
Mike Akatiff"
That pretty much does it for me, I think I'll get that model. Legal to travel to other countries; much more assurance with the 406MHz model that in a crash the SAR system will be alerted; and a good chance they'll have your last position with the GPS input.
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com (ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
I've done a bit more research. - The ACK E-04 does seem the cheapest 406MHz ELT available, and has GPS input. I emailed Ack, Inc. to see if it will use the last received GPS update for location; if not--if it needs an active datastream to retransmit location to the SAR satellite--then the GPS input seems fairly useless as I would suppose the coax from GPS to ELT is probably going to be broken in a crash.
- A Kannad S1840501-02 406 AF Compact seems the cheapest 406MHz+integrated GPS around at $831 Aircraft Spruce.
- The other possibility, as mentioned below, is cheapo 121.5 MHz unit for legality, with APRS or PLB to actually be found. I already mounted an APRS in a wing tip and fully intend to be running that (I got a Tech Amateur Radio license long ago).
- Though, don't Canada, Mexico, and the Bahama require a 406 ELT to enter their countries?
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
The old 121.5's are indeed still legal, and typically available for ~$100 if you shop around.
I've heard (unverified) rumors that the new 430MHZ units have trouble transmitting through tree canopies. Wouldn't that be expensive irony.
I intend to use the old style in the plane I'm building, & supplement it with an APRS (if you haven't heard of it, just do an internet search).
Charlie
On 11/03/2011 05:28 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
Ralph,
I believe that you can continue to use the older, 121.5Mhz., ELT's. They are cheap, especially via eBay or similar. However, as a negative, they can lead to a longer search period because they only send out an RF signal. On the plus side, many Airlines tune one of their receivers to this freq. and report when a signal is passed over. At least that alerts the emergency agents. The newer ELT's also still pump out 121.5 but, the the 430 freq. is monitored by overhead satellite receivers and the new style ELT put out GPS location. Thus, searches are nearly pin point on the money.
|
01234567890123456789012
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones? |
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Wow, that's a great price for sure.
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Lynn Riggs <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com (riggs_la(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Looks like the best place to get it is here:
http://www.airsuppliers.com/shop/search.asp?searchterm=ACK-E04
Lynn Riggs
riggs_la(at)yahoo.com (riggs_la(at)yahoo.com)
[url=tel:612-508-0988]612-508-0988[/url]
http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p352107
http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p293990
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 9:01 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Emergency Locator Transmitters: non-TSO cheap ones?
Got a very prompt reply:
"The ELT will retain the last GPS coordinates for one minute when disconnected from the GPS data source before it is activated and for 4 hours after it is activate.
Mike Akatiff"
That pretty much does it for me, I think I'll get that model. Legal to travel to other countries; much more assurance with the 406MHz model that in a crash the SAR system will be alerted; and a good chance they'll have your last position with the GPS input.
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com (ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
I've done a bit more research. - The ACK E-04 does seem the cheapest 406MHz ELT available, and has GPS input. I emailed Ack, Inc. to see if it will use the last received GPS update for location; if not--if it needs an active datastream to retransmit location to the SAR satellite--then the GPS input seems fairly useless as I would suppose the coax from GPS to ELT is probably going to be broken in a crash.
- A Kannad S1840501-02 406 AF Compact seems the cheapest 406MHz+integrated GPS around at $831 Aircraft Spruce.
- The other possibility, as mentioned below, is cheapo 121.5 MHz unit for legality, with APRS or PLB to actually be found. I already mounted an APRS in a wing tip and fully intend to be running that (I got a Tech Amateur Radio license long ago).
- Though, don't Canada, Mexico, and the Bahama require a 406 ELT to enter their countries?
RF
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
> The old 121.5's are indeed still legal, and typically available for ~$100 if you shop around.
|
| Quote: |
I've heard (unverified) rumors that the new 430MHZ units have trouble transmitting through tree canopies. Wouldn't that be expensive irony.
>
|
| Quote: | I intend to use the old style in the plane I'm building, & supplement it with an APRS (if you haven't heard of it, just do an internet search).
Charlie
On 11/03/2011 05:28 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
>
|
| Quote: | Ralph,
I believe that you can continue to use the older, 121.5Mhz., ELT's. They are cheap, especially via eBay or similar. However, as a negative, they can lead to a longer search period because they only send out an RF signal. On the plus side, many Airlines tune one of their receivers to this freq. and report when a signal is passed over. At least that alerts the emergency agents. The newer ELT's also still pump out 121.5 but, the the 430 freq. is monitored by overhead satellite receivers and the new style ELT put out GPS location. Thus, searches are nearly pin point on the money.
|
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