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FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
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Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list.  Is this a member's plane?  I like it!



www.planeaday.com until 9pm PST tonight.  After that, http://www.planeaday.com/2011_Nov.htm#111611



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

Last edited by Tom Stephens on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: FireFly - the plane I want!

Is this a member's plane?  I like it!

Tom Stephens

 

Looks like Terry Swartz near Smoke Town, PA.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!

 	  Tom Stephens wrote: 	
		  I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list.  Is this a member's plane?  I like it!



Tom 	




That would be Terry FRANTZ.  Do believe that he dropped from the list.  I will forward your email to him.  He can contact you if he wishes.



Here is another shot of him/his plane.



http://home.comcast.net/~kolbplanes/Kolb05_04b.htm

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: FireFly - the plane I want!

Ooops John,  wrong  "Terry".



Good friend Terry Frantz is the builder/ owner of that beautiful Firefly.

He usually monitors the list and will be happy to see his plane featured favorably on this list.



Gene Z

On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:13 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

 

 

 

   Is this a member's plane?  I like it!

 Tom Stephens

 

 

 

 Looks like Terry Swartz near Smoke Town, PA.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: FireFly - the plane I want!

Ooops John,  wrong  "Terry"



Gene Z

Gene Z/Gang:



That was about as close as I could guess on the last name.  



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!

Thanks guys! (Thanks George for forwarding email to Terry!)



I see Terry has brakes, but no N number, so I assume he's running as an ultralight, as I would want to?



Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly?  I'm curious as to how they compare.



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

Last edited by Tom Stephens on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: FireFly - the plane I want!

Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly?  I'm curious as to

how they compare.

 

Tom Stephens

 

Tom S/Kolbers:



Both aircraft fly extremely well.  They are easy to fly and will not bite

you as long as you keep the airspeed above stall and below VNE.



The Firestar has a 27 foot wing span and it 22 feet long, compared to the 22

foot wing span of the Firefly that is 19.5 feet long.



Compared to the longer winged Kolbs, the FF is very much a little hot rod

like its big brother the Slingshot.  It has a quick roll rate and is

extremely agile.  Does well in rough air.



Basically, all models of Kolb aircraft have the same easy, solid quality of

flight.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit confusing.  I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have.



The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport. 



I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.  But with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole plane with wing covers.  I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time now, but finally realized I just don't have the time.  Thus the FireFly would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field.  And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.



John,



Thanks for the comparison, perfect for what I wanted to know!!



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

For those asking where I got Terry's photo:  more Kolb photos contained within:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/massey_aero/sets/72157623939871980/with/4551780446/



Bill Dougherty is the photographer.



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.   



Tom



--------

Tom Stephens

 



If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

John,



Oh great, twist the knife 



I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart.  I really like being right out in front.  The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what I like in being right out there.



So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254?  Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under.  I only weigh 160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine?  Not looking for super performance.



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

I have ordered a Firefly from Travis and I am in the process of mapping out my winter building schedule. I will be flying in the Spring. I plan on keeping it completely 103 legal. This will be my 2nd Kolb.

  

 Phil H.



--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com>

Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 12:20 PM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com (tom(at)planeaday.com)>



John,



Oh great, twist the knife 



I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart.  I really like being right out in front.  The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what I like in being right out there.



So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254?  Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under.  I only weigh 160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine?  Not looking for super performance.



Tom



--------

Tom Stephens

www.planeaday.com





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#35827 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.bsp;                     ========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator           A href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matrobsp;          - List Contribution Web Site -http://www=======================





	
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rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

Tom --



I, too, did my UL training in a 2-seat Challenger.  Later I had to chance to fly two other single-seat Challengers.  I've also flown a Firefly, and I currently own a MkIIIC.

 Everyone has their own opinion, but I can tell you unequivocally that the Firefly is a ~much~ better UL than the Challenger, in virtually every category.  The Challenger is a good aircraft -- and much better than the first UL that I owned, a Quicksilver MXL -- but the Firefly is just better...  controls are lighter, and the frame and construction is much stiffer and stronger.  The visibility is better, too, in the Firefly.  I wish I'd known about the FF before I bought that Quicksilver.  YMMV.

 



  -- Robert

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com (tom(at)planeaday.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com (tom(at)planeaday.com)>

 

 It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit confusing.  I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have.

  

 The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport.

 

 I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.  But with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole plane with wing covers.  I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time now, but finally realized I just don't have the time.  Thus the FireFly would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field.  And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.

  

 Tom

 

 --------

 Tom Stephens

 www.planeaday.com

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

You beat me to that one john  I was going to say the same thing

 I have flown a couple different challengers and the Kolb Airplanes are  a better airplane  



Ellery Batchelder Jr.



--

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one>>



Hi Tom,



If you go for a Challenger in spite of the non folding wing be sure you get 

the model with the enlarged fin and rudder. The original was much to small 

and didn`t hold direction well at all. I built the original version and 

later updated with a larger fin and an extension forward along the top of 

the fuselage.

I didn`t put doors on and enjoyed the open cockpit feel. I also enjoyed the 

superb controlled side slip possible in the Challenger. Unfortunately 

approaching old age and stiffening joints meant that I could not get into 

the cockpit without a struggle and a couple of drive belts shedding their 

teeth and putting me sharply down in a field made up my mind. I changed her 

out for the gentlemanly comfort of an Xtra which is the only Kolb available 

over here.  It is very nice and I enjoy it but it won`t sideslip worth a 

damn. With the big flaps of course you shouldn`t need to sideslip but when 

I make `bomber approaches` with half flap I sometimes   miss being able to 

pull the nose up, stick a wing down , give her a bootful of rudder and slide 

over the hedge.



Cheers



Pat

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:28 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

Hangars are very expensive at my airport, kpmp.

I'm lucky in that the flying club of which I'm a member (we have two Piper Archers 180's,) has an end unit in a row of T-hangers where we keep supplies and tools. I rent room to slide my folded Mk III in the long side of the 1/2 "T".

This trick might be a good option for anyone seeking affordable shelter. 

I pay a percentage of the rent based on the footprint of the Kolb.



On the subject of rudder trim, all private pilots learn that turning tendency is induced by three forces- engine torque, slipstream and P-factor. My rudder trim tab mitigates the yaw in cruise caused by slipstream (prop wash.)

In climb, the predominant turning moment is from P-factor (asymmetrical thrust by the prop.) In a turn, drag caused by the up aileron causes adverse yaw in most airplanes, requiring rudder to compensate. However, I haven't experienced significant adverse yaw in my Kolb.

Hope that is helpful!

Dave Watkins

Mk III-C

Built by Steven Green.

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

There is a lot of confusing adverse yaw discussion in this thread already.  Adverse yaw is caused by ailerons. The down aileron has the extra drag and yaws the plane opposite of the intended turn.  This stuff is confusing enough especially when you are just learning.  Just saying.



p.s. I also am impressed with Terry's Firefly. Nice.



Scott Olendorf

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

Thanks for catching my error, Scott. You are correct. It's the down aileron that pulls the aircraft in the opposite direction of the intended turn.

Must be the aging process...

Dave

Tom Stephens

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Arnold, CA

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

Pat,



I'd still consider the Challenger, but NO folding wings 



All who are giving the FireFly flight characteristics, GREAT, thanks, I enjoy hearing!!



Phil,



What are you going to do to keep your FireFly within 103?... I'm very interested in this... well of course, as you can tell from my other post.  What was your first Kolb and why did you decide upon the FireFly?



Tom

_________________
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

Keeping the Firefly 103 legal, in my studies, should be a piece of cake. I'm just going to follow the plans, and omit the nosecone and windshield to start.

 

I'm using the CRE mz201 which is estimated at 73# including elec and pull start, exhaust and muffler, and 1.77:1 belt reduc, and I don't have a firm quote yet, but it looks like I'll be swinging a 60-62" wooden TN prop.

 

I decided on the Firefly because I like the Kolb over all other airborne critters I've seen, hands down, because I had a Twinstar before, I live 0.70 miles from 1a0 Dallas Bay Airpark, I don't want to go through inspections, registrations, etc., and because I wanted to taste bugs again.

 

Phil H.

http://phactor.com/i/f3.jpg

--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com>

Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, November 18, 2011, 5:13 PM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com (tom(at)planeaday.com)>



Pat,



I'd still consider the Challenger, but NO folding wings 



All who are giving the FireFly flight characteristics, GREAT, thanks, I enjoy hearing!!



Phil,



What are you going to do to keep your FireFly within 103?... I'm very interested in this... well of course, as you can tell from my other post.  What was your first Kolb and why did you decide upon the FireFly?



Tom



--------

Tom Stephens

www.planeaday.com





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358403#35840 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.bsp;                     ========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator           A href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matrobsp;          - List Contribution Web Site -http://www=======================





	
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