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kcflyrv(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have ‘arced’ at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a “Plane Power” one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
[quote][b]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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I suggest you first look at the alternator ground path. Instead of relying on mounting hardware, run a ground cable from the alternator to the engine ground point. I ground the engine at the starter using the same gauge wire as the positive lead going to the starter. I do a short jumper from this point to ground the alternator.
Remember, ever amp of juice running to the starter or from the alternator has the same current in the ground path.
If you still have a problem, try swapping out the source switch/breaker (what I assume you mean by field switch). If you have a corroded or other high resistance type you may be causing the internal voltage regulator to fail over time. I'd place this in the long shot category but if you are on the third alternator and the ground is good, then it may be worth your time, especially if the alternators failed because of the internal voltage regulator.
The real stretch would be if you did any thing to the comm or xpdr antennas or antenna leads, or if you are having new problems with either. If somehow you are inducing rf current
Into the alternator I could, maybe, kind of, see this causing the repeated failure.
Good luck,
Carl
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:43 PM, "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> wrote:
[quote] Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one
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mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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Ken,
Have you checked the ground wires, especially the one from the engine case to the firewall? Sometimes loose and/or dirty grounds will cause problems.
Mike Robertson
From: kcflyrv(at)comcast.net
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Eating Alternators...
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:43:25 -0800
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Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and Im currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans steam engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to quiver a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasnt too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have arced at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a Plane Power one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
[quote]
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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kcflyrv(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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Thanks Carl & Mike.
Good stuff to check out.
I’ll let you know results.
ken
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:50 PM
To: rv list
Subject: RE: Eating Alternators...
Ken,
Have you checked the ground wires, especially the one from the engine case to the firewall? Sometimes loose and/or dirty grounds will cause problems.
Mike Robertson
From: kcflyrv(at)comcast.net
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:43:25 -0800
Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have ‘arced’ at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a “Plane Power” one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
012345678901234567890123456789012
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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On 11/17/2011 02:43 PM, Ken Cantrell wrote: | Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have ‘arced’ at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a “Plane Power” one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
|
The easiest way to kill a 'one wire' alternator is to have the load drop off line suddenly. That sounds like what you're describing. If the load drops off, the regulator in the alternator cannot reduce the field voltage quickly enough to prevent a large spike in output voltage, which exceeds the ratings of the components in the regulator & it dies. If there's a loose connection or flaky contact anywhere in the circuit, it can look like an open circuit to the alternator.
Any loss of continuity between the alternator & the load (battery and/or that electrical stuff that's operating) can cause this 'load dump'. This loss can be on the positive path, or the ground path.
Check all connections between the alternator's output and the battery (screw terminals, contacters, circuit breakers, battery posts, etc).
Also check the ground return path. (This one is easy to overlook.) Don't use the motor mount for your ground return from the motor to the airframe; make sure you have a ground strap from the motor itself (or better yet, the alternator case) to the airframe ground, and be sure that the airframe has a good connection to the battery negative.
FWIW,
Charlie
[quote][b]
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kellemsm(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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Ken, I had almost the same thing happen on my RV3 ... I decided to rewire after the 2nd alternator (internal regulators) and in the process found the heavy wire from the alternator to the ammeter/ breaker had a "hot" spot in it that was brittle and barely joined by a few strands. The only thing holding it together was the "skin" . It tested good continuity but was in fact not letting the full amount of electricity through and would somehow burn the alternator up in short order. Replacing the wire fixed the problem and cured the bounce/jitter in the gauge.
Might not be your issue but, wouldn't hurt to check.
...Mike
DNA....
--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 2:43 PM
Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have ‘arced’ at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a “Plane Power” one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
|
[quote][b]
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erwhites(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: Eating Alternators... |
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Hi Ken,
The volt meter indications may provide the more meaningful data in diagnosing your problem. A fully charged battery, by itself, can only produce a max of about 12.5 volts, and this will decline as loads increase and/or the battery discharges. With the alternator field switch OFF, you would expect to see roughly between 12.5 and 11.8 volts, depending on load and state of battery charge. With the engine turning at 1000 rpm or above, and alternator field switch ON, you say you are showing 14.5 volts. If this is the case, and it stays fairly constant as you switch loads (radios, lights, etc) on and off, the alternator/regulator would have to be functioning. If that is the case, your problem is most likely a bad connection or cable. As others have suggested, prime suspects would be the engine case to fuselage ground strap, or the alternator<->master contactor<->battery<->fuselage ground cables. Assuming your electrical system was trouble free prior to the recent problem, you might want to check for corrosion and secure mechanical fastening at all terminals (including terminal to wire crimps). Also check the alternator field switch and wiring. An intermittent connection or bad switch could cause the symptoms observed. Alternatively, you could have a failing device(radio, motor, pitot heater, etc) or intermittent short circuit to ground that is producing a fluctuating load.
I may be overlooking something, or making a faulty assumption, so be sure to consider all suggestions offered by others. Lots of good help is also available on the AeroElectric List.
Good luck,
Eric Whiteside
RV6
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kellems
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:51 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Eating Alternators...
Ken, I had almost the same thing happen on my RV3 ... I decided to rewire after the 2nd alternator (internal regulators) and in the process found the heavy wire from the alternator to the ammeter/ breaker had a "hot" spot in it that was brittle and barely joined by a few strands. The only thing holding it together was the "skin" . It tested good continuity but was in fact not letting the full amount of electricity through and would somehow burn the alternator up in short order. Replacing the wire fixed the problem and cured the bounce/jitter in the gauge.
Might not be your issue but, wouldn't hurt to check.
...Mike
DNA....
--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net (kcflyrv(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
From: Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net (kcflyrv(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 2:43 PM
Listers,
I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I’m currently having serious alternator problems.
I have Vans “steam” engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to “quiver” a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn’t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder.
I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one.
After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have ‘arced’ at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem.
I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a “Plane Power” one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators.
Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated.
Ken Cantrell
Lodi, CA
209-747-2903
01234567890123456789012345
[quote][b]
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