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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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I just heard from Van's that Lycoming raised their prices. According to Van's, there were a handful of slots available at the old rate that were immediately snatched up. (I missed that memo).
At the risk of being cheeky, if anyone jumped in only to have remorse or second thoughts, I would be happy to negotiate taking over the obligation.
Happy holidays and happy building to all.
Myron
602 421-1868
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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It's worth placing a call into Aerosport. A lot of times they have inventory engines that are pre-price increase. That's what I did.
While I agree engines are really expensive, my decision to buy when I did is looking better. I saved about $4,500 compared to the current new price.
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:44 PM, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)>
I just heard from Van's that Lycoming raised their prices. According to Van's, there were a handful of slots available at the old rate that were immediately snatched up. (I missed that memo).
At the risk of being cheeky, if anyone jumped in only to have remorse or second thoughts, I would be happy to negotiate taking over the obligation.
Happy holidays and happy building to all.
Myron
[url=tel:602%20421-1868]602 421-1868[/url]
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359745#359745
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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I bought my certified engine through Vans at the 2004 price of $38900 in
anticipation of the 2005 increase. Lycoming had to cover the crankshaft AD
on other IO540s so the Van's 2005 price was $44600? The current Vans price
for the certified version is $47705 or $45800 for the experimental version.
The price increase from 2005 - 2012 (8 years) has been a total of $3105 or
about $400 per year or about 1% a year.
--
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Hmmm, until recently the experimental version was under $41K. That is a
whopping jump of $4K in one year or 10 percent for experimental. I guess
that will make used and rebuilt a bit more attractive. Seems like a huge
markup for an engine that has been in production for 45 years or so with
very few changes.
On 11/29/2011 2:33 PM, DLM wrote:
| Quote: |
I bought my certified engine through Vans at the 2004 price of $38900 in
anticipation of the 2005 increase. Lycoming had to cover the crankshaft AD
on other IO540s so the Van's 2005 price was $44600? The current Vans price
for the certified version is $47705 or $45800 for the experimental version.
The price increase from 2005 - 2012 (8 years) has been a total of $3105 or
about $400 per year or about 1% a year.
|
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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The IO540 D4A5 has to carry the load for all those other engines with company funded/subsidized ADs
--
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Sounds like a good reason to buy a used C4B5.
On 11/29/2011 6:49 PM, DLM wrote:
| Quote: |
The IO540 D4A5 has to carry the load for all those other engines with
company funded/subsidized ADs
*
*
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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That's correct. This specific jump from the previous price was an even $3,500. I think they had a smaller one in the early summer, so I'll bet it's slightly over the $4K that you noticed.
Got ours hung last week.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384720_2448633629128_1650597149_2485999_919415608_n.jpg
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
Hmmm, until recently the experimental version was under $41K. That is a whopping jump of $4K in one year or 10 percent for experimental. I guess that will make used and rebuilt a bit more attractive. Seems like a huge markup for an engine that has been in production for 45 years or so with very few changes.
On 11/29/2011 2:33 PM, DLM wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm34077(at)q.com (dlm34077(at)q.com)>
I bought my certified engine through Vans at the 2004 price of $38900 in
anticipation of the 2005 increase. Lycoming had to cover the crankshaft AD
on other IO540s so the Van's 2005 price was $44600? The current Vans price
for the certified version is $47705 or $45800 for the experimental version.
The price increase from 2005 - 2012 (8 years) has been a total of $3105 or
about $400 per year or about 1% a year.
|
====================================
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
[b]
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woodsie
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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The US dollar has dropped sharply in value in the last year guys. Anything imported into the USA to build engines now costs a lot more...
Tony Woods
Sent from my phone
On Nov 30, 2011, at 6:38, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]That's correct. This specific jump from the previous price was an even $3,500. I think they had a smaller one in the early summer, so I'll bet it's slightly over the $4K that you noticed.
Got ours hung last week.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384720_2448633629128_1650597149_2485999_919415608_n.jpg
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
Hmmm, until recently the experimental version was under $41K. That is a whopping jump of $4K in one year or 10 percent for experimental. I guess that will make used and rebuilt a bit more attractive. Seems like a huge markup for an engine that has been in production for 45 years or so with very few changes.
On 11/29/2011 2:33 PM, DLM wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm34077(at)q.com (dlm34077(at)q.com)>
I bought my certified engine through Vans at the 2004 price of $38900 in
anticipation of the 2005 increase. Lycoming had to cover the crankshaft AD
on other IO540s so the Van's 2005 price was $44600? The current Vans price
for the certified version is $47705 or $45800 for the experimental version.
The price increase from 2005 - 2012 (8 years) has been a total of $3105 or
about $400 per year or about 1% a year.
|
====================================
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
[b]
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Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive  |
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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... and greed because there are a thousand RV-10's in early kit stages that will mostly be buying new D4A5's.
The dollars has been sideways almost on the nose for the past 12 months. Compare Nov 2010 to Nov 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency
We're really suffering from lack of competition and lycoming's greed. I did hear rumors at OSH last year that ECI was very close to having their clone D4A5 ready for market. They see the the same 1000+ kits out there for the D4A5. Having ECI in the game would be the best thing that could happen to those thousand-plus buyers.
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
[quote] The US dollar has dropped sharply in value in the last year guys. Anything imported into the USA to build engines now costs a lot more...
Tony Woods
Sent from my phone
[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Actually it is because of little or no competition resulting from a government that “certifies” (controls, specifies, approves) everything aviation except some experimental. The bureaucrats cost money and we have them in spades.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine order blues
.... and greed because there are a thousand RV-10's in early kit stages that will mostly be buying new D4A5's.
The dollars has been sideways almost on the nose for the past 12 months. Compare Nov 2010 to Nov 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency
We're really suffering from lack of competition and lycoming's greed. I did hear rumors at OSH last year that ECI was very close to having their clone D4A5 ready for market. They see the the same 1000+ kits out there for the D4A5. Having ECI in the game would be the best thing that could happen to those thousand-plus buyers.
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
The US dollar has dropped sharply in value in the last year guys. Anything imported into the USA to build engines now costs a lot more...
Tony Woods
Sent from my phone
0123456789012345678901234
[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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If you were talking a certified engine, relatively new design, I could
buy that argument. But for an engine that was designed, certified and
produced 45 years ago, the only on-going FAA involvement is in the parts
manufacturing quality control. In the case of the experimental version
even that cost goes away. Lycoming can build the experimental with the
reject parts from the certified versions if they chose to. Or they can
just take advantage of cost savings from additional volume in parts
production. The design and certification costs were paid for in the
first 5 years of Comanche and Aztec production, not to mention the
Cherokee 235. All the same parts. Lycoming actually produces very few if
any parts in the engine, and hasn't for the last 20 years. They sold all
the tooling, dies, machine equipment and subcontracted for all the
parts. Only their type certificate and assembly work was retained. I
hear they are thinking about returning to some in house production.
On 11/29/2011 9:16 PM, DLM wrote:
| Quote: |
Actually it is because of little or no competition resulting from a
government that “certifies” (controls, specifies, approves) everything
aviation except some experimental. The bureaucrats cost money and we
have them in spades.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillip Perry
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:17 PM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: Engine order blues
.... and greed because there are a thousand RV-10's in early kit
stages that will mostly be buying new D4A5's.
The dollars has been sideways almost on the nose for the past 12
months. Compare Nov 2010 to Nov 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency
We're really suffering from lack of competition and lycoming's greed.
I did hear rumors at OSH last year that ECI was very close to having
their clone D4A5 ready for market. They see the the same 1000+ kits
out there for the D4A5. Having ECI in the game would be the best thing
that could happen to those thousand-plus buyers.
Phil
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af
<mailto:twoods(at)sesa.af>> wrote:
The US dollar has dropped sharply in value in the last year guys.
Anything imported into the USA to build engines now costs a lot more...
Tony Woods
Sent from my phone
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Kelly McMullen
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Engine order blues |
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After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck. I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified FI, and Pmags.
I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the build process, good luck (and start saving).
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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Jim Combs
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Good luck getting PMags for a Lyc 540 as they do not exist. You options are to go with a Lightspeed electronic ignition or Mags.
Jim Combs
N312F - 300+ hours
Do Not Archive
[quote][b]
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RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008 |
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rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support.
You will be very happy with that decision.
--
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Let me know what Barrett says when you tell them you want to use Lightspeed.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]
congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support. You will be very happy with that decision.
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Engine order blues |
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>>Good luck getting PMags for a Lyc 540 as they do not exist.<<
Rhonda at BPE has spoken to the Pmag folks and they told her that the 6cyl units should be available within our build timeline.
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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I would be amazed if any engine builder still endorses Lightspeed.
I replaced a dual Lightspeed install in my 8A with dual P-mags a few years
ago and an very pleased with the Pmags. If anyone is interested I'll send
my experience with Klaus and why I pulled his ignition out off my plane off
line.
Just got a note from Brad at eMag - providing some confidence on his
shipping me the two 6 cylinder units in the near future. The plane is
painted and I'm now in the final panel wire and bolt on phase so I'm hopeful
the timing works.
Carl
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Are six cyl Pmags now available?
On 12/9/2011 11:00 AM, woxofswa wrote:
| Quote: |
After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck. I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified FI, and Pmags.
I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the build process, good luck (and start saving).
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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I called E-Mag today about availability as I was going to place one on my -10 during the build process. As you may know I have been flying for 2 years so it's been a while. Based on my call E-Mag this morning they sent me back a "service slip" which states I ordered the unit (no $ down) on 7/16/2007. Yes 2007 so I am high on the list.
He asked for the first time if I wanted a certified one or an experimental unit. It was my understanding they were only going to offer certified 6 cylinder units but I guess that is no longer true (if it ever was).
Essentially I was told that they are very close and that it would not be before New Years but most likely 1st quarter.
I am only passing on what I was told…
My guess is that Myron will have plenty of time if he is ordering his engine now. Barrett will place a temp Mag on his engine for the dyno runs just like they did for me.
I LOVE the P-Mag on my 200 Hp angle valve IO-360 (RV-8A). Nearly impossible to hear a mag drop on that side running Auto Plugs.
Congratulations Myron. That will be a nice engine.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:19 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine order blues
Good luck getting PMags for a Lyc 540 as they do not exist. You options are to go with a Lightspeed electronic ignition or Mags.
Jim Combs
N312F - 300+ hours
Do Not Archive
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: Engine order blues |
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Personally, I have the Lightspeed plasma III at 800 hours and
I'm very happy. But, I would wouldn't really recommend mixing
and matching electronic ignitions. I think if you want to
go E-Mag once they ship, you're better off replacing
BOTH and going with dual. I have the mag because it's a
simple backup, but if you went 1 LSE + 1 E-Mag, you could
potentially end up with 2 very different advance curves,
so I'd think you're better off doing it other ways.
Either keep the LSE and Mag, or get another LSE, or drop
both of what you have and go with and E-Mag/P-Mag combo
of some sort.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/9/2011 4:50 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
| Quote: | Take pictures of the unit once you get it. Would really like to see
that they are indeed shipping. I know I have been told for many YEARS
that they would have one shipping. Seeing is believing.
On the other hand I have been running a Lightspeed unit for 300+ hours
with no issues. I do have a mag that I would like to replace at some
point. I start with the lightspeed and see no RPM drop when the mag is
shut off during run-up. My experience is it works.
My data is I have a Lightspeed installed and working, Have been told
that P-Mag and E-Mag would soon be available for the 540 for many
years. So yes I am very skeptical. Optimistic too though. These have
been working on the 360 engines for some time now with success. I am
curious that you were put on a waiting/order list. That was never an
option when I talked to them.
My intentions are to replace the mag with a E-Mag once they really are
shipping. Will have to call and see how many are one the wait list.
Jim Combs
Do Not Archive.
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com
<mailto:robin(at)painttheweb.com>> wrote:
I called E-Mag today about availability as I was going to place one
on my -10 during the build process. As you may know I have been
flying for 2 years so it's been a while. Based on my call E-Mag this
morning they sent me back a "service slip" which states I ordered
the unit (no $ down) on 7/16/2007. Yes 2007 so I am high on the
list.____
He asked for the first time if I wanted a certified one or an
experimental unit. It was my understanding they were only going to
offer certified 6 cylinder units but I guess that is no longer true
(if it ever was). ____
Essentially I was told that they are very close and that it would
not be before New Years but most likely 1st quarter. ____
I am only passing on what I was told…____
My guess is that Myron will have plenty of time if he is ordering
his engine now. Barrett will place a temp Mag on his engine for the
dyno runs just like they did for me. ____
I LOVE the P-Mag on my 200 Hp angle valve IO-360 (RV-8A). Nearly
impossible to hear a mag drop on that side running Auto Plugs. ____
Congratulations Myron. That will be a nice engine.____
Robin____
__ __
__ __
*From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jim Combs
*Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2011 10:19 AM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:* Re: Re: Engine order blues____
__ __
Good luck getting PMags for a Lyc 540 as they do not exist. You
options are to go with a Lightspeed electronic ignition or Mags.
Jim Combs
N312F - 300+ hours
Do Not Archive
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