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Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
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white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

They have a screen, but there is an stc for a filter.

From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 5:18:59 PM

Subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.



 



         [quote][b]

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Is it worth changing to an oil filter system? I've heard the screens don't clean as well as an oil filter and are harder to get to.



Also, the 520 being so light and small - what would a reasonable take off distance be full tanks, 2 persons on board, standard day, sea level? Ballpark figure.  I've heard some people operating out of 1400ft, but that seems close to the bone. There's a guy at 15WA airfield in Washington who regularly flies his 500 out of that 2000ft grass strip, so I'm assuming a tarmac 1400ft field could be OK.



Here's a link to his landings:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctf1ZycVag8

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Here's a link to his landings: 	




That's Dave Pfeiffer, I believe he has a Colemill or some other conversion giving him 310+HP per side soprobably not a good comparison.



What made you decide against the Skymaster?

_________________
Milt

comserv500s(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Adam: Regarding your question about oil filters. I do not think

installing oil filter kits will make economic sense, as they are

expensive, labor intensive to install, & offer one more possibility

for engine oil leaks & starvation. We have maintained geared Lycoming

engines for years with screens, with no problems. Just regular oil

changes, cleaning screens, & good engine maintenance is adequate. As

for takeoff distance with your loading requirements, 1,400 feet will

be no problem.  The aircraft in the video link you sent is one of our

customers. Dave Phifer has a 500B with Merlyn Products 320 hp engine

conversion, gross weight is 7,200 lbs. Geared engine airplanes tend to

accelerate better than direct drive, so takeoff distances are usually

better.  Braking on landing will be more consideration on short

runways. I spoke to Vic & his mechanic Bob, today, they are sending me

some information that I requested. I have appointments on Friday &

Saturday, I could not reschedule, so will try for a reservation for

Sun. afternoon to Detroit. I will send you a copy of my schedule when

confirmed. Thanks,  Morris



On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:41 AM, stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Is it worth changing to an oil filter system? I've heard the screens don't clean as well as an oil filter and are harder to get to.



 Also, the 520 being so light and small - what would a reasonable take off distance be full tanks, 2 persons on board, standard day, sea level? Ballpark figure.  I've heard some people operating out of 1400ft, but that seems close to the bone. There's a guy at 15WA airfield in Washington who regularly flies his 500 out of that 2000ft grass strip, so I'm assuming a tarmac 1400ft field could be OK.



 Here's a link to his landings:



 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctf1ZycVag8





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325659#325659

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Adam,



1400 ft? Close to the bone? I'll say... If everything is working and an engine doesn't sputter maybe after you've had a bunch of practice. I fly a C180 Skywagon with a full Horton STOL and 1000' always seems short. I just got back from flying a U206 Air Ambulance in South America for awhile and everything's got to be right when you're operating in and out of short strips. 1400 feet is going to look like a postage stamp in a Commander....



Before I'd try it I'd go out and mark out 1400 feet on a long runway and practice, practice, practice. It seems to me that 1400 ft is probably beyond the accelerate/stop distance, especially if you've got the goodyear brakes and not the Clevelands. One of the first things I did after I got my 680E was to put Cleveland brakes on it. Cut my accelerate/stop distance almost in half. Best money I spent at $5,000 for the pair.



Cate

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Thanks Morris. I will be going to Detroit myself probably mid next week if all works out here in London in time. Maybe I'll see you there, or just miss you, but we'll def speak on the phone.



Milt - well, for as long as I've flown and can remember, I've had four aircrafts that I've obsessed about: Skymasters, Aero Commanders, Aerostars and Lake Amphibians (two Ted Smith designs, so he must have done something right in my eyes!). 



Internally they constantly change place in some kind of childish, twisted Top 4 list. I had a Skymaster obsessive period beginning of the year (when I almost bought a 336 and inquired about a P337) and then it shifted to Lake Amphibians more towards the autumn. I thought that would be a good choice for a first time buyer, and it probably would have been. They're sturdy aircrafts and relatively simple. The red thread here is I like utility and being able to get into smaller, rougher fields. More bush than posh. OK, that doesn't explain Aerostars, but they're just...hot.



So when N527P came along on Ebay, I pretty much just bid on it to see where the reserve price was, giving myself $500 above the asking price to play with as I was certain I was going to buy a Lake. Turns out the reserve was just right there - I was the instant high bidder on my first bid. I thought someone would come along during the week and outbid me, but then nobody did. So I kind of became the owner by accident. It did freak me out a bit at first, but I've come to terms with it now. Is it a good first buy for a rookie owner? Probably not, a 500B would perhaps have been a better choice (and more than I could afford), but hey, at least it will be an experience.

_________________
Adam

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

 	  Cate Chagnot wrote: 	
		  Adam,



1400 ft? Close to the bone? I'll say... If everything is working and an engine doesn't sputter maybe after you've had a bunch of practice. I fly a C180 Skywagon with a full Horton STOL and 1000' always seems short. I just got back from flying a U206 Air Ambulance in South America for awhile and everything's got to be right when you're operating in and out of short strips. 1400 feet is going to look like a postage stamp in a Commander....



Before I'd try it I'd go out and mark out 1400 feet on a long runway and practice, practice, practice. It seems to me that 1400 ft is probably beyond the accelerate/stop distance, especially if you've got the goodyear brakes and not the Clevelands. One of the first things I did after I got my 680E was to put Cleveland brakes on it. Cut my accelerate/stop distance almost in half. Best money I spent at $5,000 for the pair.



Cate 	




Hi Cate.



Unfortunately, apparently there is no brake upgrade on the 520 to anything newer, so I'm stuck with the old ones.



Yeah, 1400ft isn't much. I started flying in Sweden many years ago, had a hiatus, and then lived 7 years in England and picked it up again and flew there. England has rather few American style long tarmac runways, so one has to contend with a lot of grass fields. I quite regularly fly (or should say flew now that I live in LA) into short grass fields, but that was obviously smaller single Cessnas. The specified take off distance of the 520 (thank you Barry!) is a published 950ft. I've been told it's the quickest of all the Commanders to get off the ground. Still, going for smaller gravel or grass fields is not something I will be doing until I feel comfortable in all aspects.

_________________
Adam

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Once you go into a strip under 2500' you have to ignore stop-start

distances. When you open the taps on takeoff, you have no more than 10

seconds to decide to abandon. Otherwise, you fly. Period. If you lose an

engine after that, you have a single-engine heavy weight on your hands. With

proper energy management you would be slightly better off than a single that

lost an engine, but you aren't going anywhere far anyway. I think it was Bob

Hoover who said, fly the plane as far into the accident as you possibly can.

I liked what Cate said, practice, practice and when you are done, practice

again. (paraphrased). Going into the general flying area and setting up an

imaginary runway at a particular altitude can give one surprising insight

into problems close to the 'ground'. 



--

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Filters can be installed with a one time  field inspection.  Chris at Security Aviation did my 680Fp some time ago,  and I believe that he has multiple instillation  permission.

  

 Moe

 N680RR

 680Fp

  

  



  From: craig kennedy (white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 5:29 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953  questions.

 



  They have a screen, but there is an stc for a filter.



 

   From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 5:18:59  PM

Subject: Re:  Commander 520 from 1953 questions.



[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

One lesson that still sticks in my mind was one I learned at my first

Commander fly-in in '99, while having a cocktail with Morris and Keith

Gordon (at that point I had about 150 hours in my 500B....100% of my

experience in twins....and barely more as PIC of anything). They

mentioned that it's very easy to fly a Commander into a strip that you

could never leave. That lesson was driven home at the conclusion of

that trip, when, as a test, I flew a slightly slower approach and

landed my airplane to a full stop in about 800 feet. Granted, I have

Clevelands on my airplane. Still, it's not difficult to do.



On the other hand, I've left Lake Tahoe (6,250 MSL) in august at 85

deg.F. And had the gear in the wells in 3,000 feet of runway, with

full tanks, 4 people and baggage on board, exactly as Morris predicted

during my nervous pre-takeoff phone call to him. Normally aspirated,

as my turbos were broken at the time.



 These airplanes are amazingly capable.



/J



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 5, 2011, at 7:55 PM, cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> wrote:



[quote] 



 Once you go into a strip under 2500' you have to ignore stop-start

 distances. When you open the taps on takeoff, you have no more than 10

 seconds to decide to abandon. Otherwise, you fly. Period. If you lose an

 engine after that, you have a single-engine heavy weight on your hands. With

 proper energy management you would be slightly better off than a single that

 lost an engine, but you aren't going anywhere far anyway. I think it was Bob

 Hoover who said, fly the plane as far into the accident as you possibly can.

 I liked what Cate said, practice, practice and when you are done, practice

 again. (paraphrased). Going into the general flying area and setting up an

 imaginary runway at a particular altitude can give one surprising insight

 into problems close to the 'ground'.



 --

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

So, pre-buy with Morris is done and showing no real surprises. Pretty good shape for her age. She will need a bit of TLC - some of it I will have to take care of straight out of the gate, some can wait until the annual in June and some can wait indefinitely. 



Main things need taking care of, I think:



- Three brake pads need replacing. The seller has some, but he said they might be "homemade" by the previous owner, so not spec. I didn't get to see them.



- There's also a small hydraulic leak in the right gear lock down mechanism. Probably just a seal.



- Ailerons are over tightened and have the wrong bolts. This I think should be addressed swiftly in case they start chafing or causing other damages.



- Fuel, hydraulic and vacuum hoses dry and brittle in engine compartments. Needs swift fix.



- Pushrod tube seals leaking oil.



My aim is to fly her back to California beginning of Feb.



Morris was a huge help and after he flew back, I got to spend some time with the machine. I'm very excited and she seems like a lovely, snubnosed friendly plane. I'm looking forward to many years of flying with her.

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_________________
Adam

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

I thought I'd add an almost-one-year-ownership update on N20VE.



She spent about 4 months at Morris's place getting almost all the pre-buy squawks taken care of. After that I got to fly her for a whole week (!) before it was time for the annual. After the annual was taken care of, we flew to Chicago with the intention of joining the fly-in in Detroit, but that didn't happen due to two bad cylinders. Nervous A&P guy in Chicago wanted to condemn the cam (which would have meant splitting the case and equaling a $40K overhaul..). Lycoming thankfully agreed with JimBob and Morris, so I dodged that one. A month later I picked her up and flew back to California without troubles - she ran great. Had her here at home base at El Monte for some time but then the gear switch fell out of alignment and I had to go to Morris to fix that. 



Video here:



http://www.youtube.com/user/stratobee#p/a/u/1/_rXRDMDsWxo



Of course we found a cracked stiffener in the front wheel well, so more downtime. Day before yesterday the switch started playing up again and I took it to Chris at Security Aviation in Hawthorne, and as they were wheeling her in, the front gear collapsed and bent the two front doors. Better there than on the rwy, I suppose...



I love the aircraft, but I do hope my batting average goes up a bit soon. I can't continue having to do repairs for $500 each hour I fly for that much longer.

_________________
Adam

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

I thoroughly enjoyed the video, Adam. Brought back some precious memories. 

Eventually, you will have all the bugs chased down and plugged, I am sure. 



Nico

 



--

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Adam,

I took the liberty of publishing your video on the Aero Commander FaceBook

page:

 



--

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Adam,

I took the liberty of publishing your video on the Aero Commander FaceBook

page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Aero-Commander/144424762275884 

 



--

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Ah, cool Nico! Yeah, I have some other videos there of flying the old girl, for those who are so inclined. I'm editing a few at the moment as well, so should be some nice night flying ones coming up soon.

_________________
Adam

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