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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?
Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Pat
[quote][b]
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Speaking of which, I just went through my boxes of stuff and found that I have 2-4 full flap positioning systems that I will not be using. I will let them go for a good price (half of Van's price) plus shipping.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 9, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
[quote]Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?
Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Pat
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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[quote="rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com"]Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?
Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Pat
I used the Vertical Power VP-200 instead. You simply put a Ray Allen position sensor on it and the VP does the rest. It reminds me to raise the flaps for takeoff, and won't extend them if the airspeed is too high. You can make the increments any angle you want.
John
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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Wayne G. |
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Before I went with the VP-200, I was planning on that Aircraft Extras unit. Rich is great to work with and I have his fuel guardian unit and I'm about to get the LCD button to use as a warn for different alerts.
Michael
On Dec 10, 2011, at 8:59 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
[quote="rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com"]Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?
Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Pat
> [b]
I used the Vertical Power VP-200 instead. You simply put a Ray Allen position sensor on it and the VP does the rest. It reminds me to raise the flaps for takeoff, and won't extend them if the airspeed is too high. You can make the increments any angle you want.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360619#360619
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davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted history and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapades than a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)" <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote] I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Very well aware that these are two different products from two different companies. Point being at least for me is that there is no way I am willing to let one single electronic component control all the electronics in my plane. Not bashing VP or those that go this route. Just saying that if it takes a crap for whatever reason while your away from home,,,,your gonna be hard pressed to get back in the air anytime soon.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
To: "<rv10-list(at)matronics.com>" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:52:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted history and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapades than a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)" <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote] I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving a lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one unit back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
[quote]I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
| Quote: | | [/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]www.aeroelectric.com[/b] |
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[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Hi
This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 EFIS screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read everything on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas etc. I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to the tail.
After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't imagine using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool watching the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration settings on the EFIS.
With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if the VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight, my EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has been stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving a lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one unit back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
[quote] I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
[b]
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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|
No master avionics switch for you then. 
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:48 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)" <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote] Very well aware that these are two different products from two different companies. Point being at least for me is that there is no way I am willing to let one single electronic component control all the electronics in my plane. Not bashing VP or those that go this route. Just saying that if it takes a crap for whatever reason while your away from home,,,,your gonna be hard pressed to get back in the air anytime soon.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)>
To: "<rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:52:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted history and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapades than a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)" <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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ectric.com
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Les,
If you replace the box do you have to reprogram anything/everything? I assume they have some system in place for this?
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:26 PM, "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] Hi
This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 EFIS screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read everything on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas etc. I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to the tail.
After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't imagine using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool watching the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration settings on the EFIS.
With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if the VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight, my EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has been stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving a lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one unit back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
(jesse(at)saintaviation.com)jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
f="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
|
|
Just like most efis, you can save the configuration.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com (robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)> wrote:
Les,
If you replace the box do you have to reprogram anything/everything? I assume they have some system in place for this?
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:26 PM, "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] Hi
This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 EFIS screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read everything on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas etc. I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to the tail.
After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't imagine using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool watching the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration settings on the EFIS.
With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if the VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight, my EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has been stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving a lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one unit back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
(jesse(at)saintaviation.com)jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
f="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler |
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
|
|
Robin
I am still in setup mode but there is a facility to save / restore the setup on a SD card. This part of the EFIS. That being said, I expect that I could redo the setup quite quickly from my docs.
It really seems quite straightforward.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-10, at 5:48 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com (robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)> wrote:
[quote] Les,
If you replace the box do you have to reprogram anything/everything? I assume they have some system in place for this?
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:26 PM, "Les Kearney" <[url=mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca]kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 EFIS screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read everything on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas etc. I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to the tail.
After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't imagine using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool watching the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration settings on the EFIS.
With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if the VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight, my EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has been stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving a lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one unit back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
(jesse(at)saintaviation.com)[url=mailto:jesse(at)saintaviation.com]jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)[/url]
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a "let's start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too early but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A build.
Respectfully,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)[url=mailto:davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net]davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)[/url]
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
From: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)[url=mailto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com]wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" < (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)[url=mailto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com]wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
f="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
|
|
If the master switch goes bad, I have an aux master contacter connected to pc680 bat which can also start engine. I also have aux ebus relay that sends power up front to power all avionics from pc680 for up to 1.2 hrs. I have fuse blocks. I have a little more wire and a bunch of switches, but I am okay with it.
We all do things a little different. There are advantages and disadvantages to every choice we make during the build. When we all get together to go flying it really won't matter much. RV-10's are great no matter how you build it.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Wayne G. |
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larson36(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
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Jesse
Do you still have a RVF10 Flap kit available for sale?
If you do, I am interested.
Larry Klein
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