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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Andrew

  

 Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the  answers to your questions:

  

 1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I  made a deliberate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to  avionics etc.

  

 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom  (PMA8000B audio panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327  Txpndr, TruTrak RV10 autopilot) 

  

 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the panel back on).

  

 4. My concern was that I did not want to  install steam gauges / "normal" backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS  screens with battery backups and independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy.  Although I have contemplated adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as  backups, I didn't see the payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine  that has added a few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two  independent buses each with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the  engine and related components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I  could find. The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the  right side of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off  line so they are dedicated to the engine. I can also isolate the power to the  engine (in the event of a fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything  except the engine. 

 

5.  I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given the cost,  why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb quality. Besides  the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is enormous. There are are a  lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very detailed info on the  cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I can't imaging doing this on  my own - I just wouldn't know where to start.

  

 6. I  started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) it  duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the panel  real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X that  integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to let  me  swap the -100 for the -X. 

  

 I  goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still go with  the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface / music  interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX doesn't have  the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of navigation, The GNS430  WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being said, I also have another  non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install. 

  

 Something else  you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head made by TruTrak. It is  very simple as the advanced features are controlled by the EFIS and not the AP  head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10 AP but later changed to  the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$.

  

 Cheers

  

 Les 

  

  

  

   

 From: Andrew Long [mailto:along(at)aanet.com.au]  

Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM

To:  kearney(at)shaw.ca

Subject: RE: Re: RV-10 Flap  Positioner

 

Hi Les,



Your stack is almost exactly the same as the  configuration I am looking at. If I may ask some questions and keep in touch  that would be great.



1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct  power to the various instruments?

2. What is the full configuration of your  panel by component?

3. Do you have any pictures of the panel?

4. What were  the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection?

5. Did you purchase  all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast Stack, or did you make  some of your own cables?

6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200?



The stack  I am looking at is as follows:         2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup    batteries

   
   Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)    

 

   
   Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)

   
   PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)

   
   GTX-327  (Transponder)    

 

   
   Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness

I  would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any learnings you  have developed on your systems.



Thanks in advance.



Regards,  

Andrew Long 

www.ozrv10.com 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi 

 

 This is one  topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered 

 up the  avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 

 EFIS  

 screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems  Fast 

 Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays! 

 

 All  the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read 

  everything 

 on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was  done. With Tim 

 Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power  lead, antennas 

 etc. 

 I started slowly as I was learning as I  went but by the end I was pretty 

 confident as to how things would turn  out. There is still a lot of work 

 involved in wiring - I was surprised  about the amount of wire that goes to 

 the tail. 

 

 After  seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define 

  circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being  

 switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't  

 imagine 

 using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It  was beyond cool 

 watching 

 the avionics turn on, box by box, as  I changed the VP-X configuration 

 settings on the EFIS. 

  

 With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if  

 the 

 VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this  happened in flight, 

 my 

 EFIS screens have internal backup  batteries so it shouldn't be a huge 

 issue. 

 

 A final  note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has 

 been  

 stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.  

 

 Cheers 

 

 Les 

 #40643 

 

  _____ 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint 

  Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM 

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

  Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

 

 

 I  agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a 

  VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I  

 could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,  

 breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as  giving 

 a 

 lot more information about a problem when you have  it. In over 2,000 hours 

 flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had  to send a total of one 

 unit 

 back to VP for repair, and have  never had a completely dead unit. As Robin 

 said, you can't lump quality  equipment made by VP with 

 "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.  

 

 Jesse Saint 

 Saint Aviation, Inc. 

  jesse(at)saintaviation.com 

 C: 352-427-0285 

 F: 815-377-3694  

 

 On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote: 

  

 

 

 I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same  category. One is 

 exceptionally well thought out and tested system while  the other is a 

 "let's 

 start selling it and then work on  finishing the development over promising 

 while under delivering. I  don't own a VP because my -10 build was too 

 early 

 but it is an  impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A 

 build.  

 

 Respectfully, 

 Robin 

 Do Not Archive 

  

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf 

  Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net 

 Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM  

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Subject: Re: Re: RV-10  Flap Positioner 

 

 I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I  spent the day at my 

 buddies 

 cold (freezing) hanger to help  trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy 

 MKIV we built. He went with  a Blue Mountain power board that has been 

 nothing but trouble,,,, and  you really need to know that stuff when it 

 fails. And yes,,,,you are  grounded until fixed. The last time it failed 

 it 

 took an  electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! 

 No  

 Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. 

 

  David Clifford 

 

 RV-10 Builder 

 Howell, MI 

  

 

 

 _____ 

 

 

 

From:  "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM  

 Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

 

 -->  RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>  

 

 I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good  deal if yoy 

 choose that route. 

 

 When it breaks it will  be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. 

 I 

 have the  same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle 

 position  

 twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches.  It 

 is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight. 

  

 VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not  have 

 the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the  more 

 circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to  fix and 

 you 

 better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One  reason I do not sell 16 

 seer+ 

 hvac systems. 

 

  -------- 

 Wayne Gillispie, A&amp;P 05/93 PP 10/08 

 Bldr#  40983SB Started 12/1/2009 

 N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.

IMG_0781.JPG

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rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

I would second Les's comments about the PSE8000BT.  I went with a gtn650. My backup gps source is the farming unit afs sells.  The sorcerer doesn't really buy you much for the extra expense over the afs ap.  primarily just the ability to use the ils approach independently of the efis   

I too went with the  vp-x, primarily for economic reasons.  I wanted the vp-200,  but had tighten the budget.  

I wired the panel myself.  It isn't hard just tedious. 

I am planning on using a Gemini PFD as my backup. Unfortunately that won't ship for another month. 

I hope to be able to power my panel up in a couple weeks. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:



     Hi Andrew

  

 Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the  answers to your questions:

  

 1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I  made a deliberate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to  avionics etc.

  

 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom  (PMA8000B audio panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327  Txpndr, TruTrak RV10 autopilot) 

  

 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the panel back on).

  

 4. My concern was that I did not want to  install steam gauges / "normal" backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS  screens with battery backups and independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy.  Although I have contemplated adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as  backups, I didn't see the payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine  that has added a few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two  independent buses each with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the  engine and related components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I  could find. The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the  right side of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off  line so they are dedicated to the engine. I can also isolate the power to the  engine (in the event of a fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything  except the engine. 

 

5.  I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given the cost,  why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb quality. Besides  the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is enormous. There are are a  lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very detailed info on the  cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I can't imaging doing this on  my own - I just wouldn't know where to start.

  

 6. I  started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) it  duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the panel  real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X that  integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to let  me  swap the -100 for the -X. 

  

 I  goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still go with  the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface / music  interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX doesn't have  the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of navigation, The GNS430  WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being said, I also have another  non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install. 

  

 Something else  you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head made by TruTrak. It is  very simple as the advanced features are controlled by the EFIS and not the AP  head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10 AP but later changed to  the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$.

  

 Cheers

  

 Les 

  

  

  

   

 From: Andrew Long [mailto:along(at)aanet.com.au]  

Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM

To:  kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)

Subject: RE: Re: RV-10 Flap  Positioner

 

Hi Les,



Your stack is almost exactly the same as the  configuration I am looking at. If I may ask some questions and keep in touch  that would be great.



1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct  power to the various instruments?

2. What is the full configuration of your  panel by component?

3. Do you have any pictures of the panel?

4. What were  the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection?

5. Did you purchase  all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast Stack, or did you make  some of your own cables?

6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200?



The stack  I am looking at is as follows:         2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup    batteries

   
   Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)    

 

   
   Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)

   
   PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)

   
   GTX-327  (Transponder)    

 

   
   Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness

I  would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any learnings you  have developed on your systems.



Thanks in advance.



Regards,  

Andrew Long 

www.ozrv10.com 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi 

 

 This is one  topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered 

 up the  avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 

 EFIS  

 screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems  Fast 

 Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays! 

 

 All  the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read 

  everything 

 on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was  done. With Tim 

 Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power  lead, antennas 

 etc. 

 I started slowly as I was learning as I  went but by the end I was pretty 

 confident as to how things would turn  out. There is still a lot of work 

 involved in wiring - I was surprised  about the amount of wire that goes to 

 the tail. 

 

 After  seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define 

  circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being  

 switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't  

 imagine 

 using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It  was beyond cool 

 watching 

 the avionics turn on, box by box, as  I changed the VP-X configuration 

 settings on the EFIS. 

  

 With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if  

 the 

 VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this  happened in flight, 

 my 

 EFIS screens have internal backup  batteries so it shouldn't be a huge 

 issue. 

 

 A final  note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has 

 been  

 stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.  

 

 Cheers 

 

 Les 

 #40643 

 

  _____ 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint 

  Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM 

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

  Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

 

 

 I  agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a 

  VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I  

 could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,  

 breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as  giving 

 a 

 lot more information about a problem when you have  it. In over 2,000 hours 

 flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had  to send a total of one 

 unit 

 back to VP for repair, and have  never had a completely dead unit. As Robin 

 said, you can't lump quality  equipment made by VP with 

 "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.  

 

 Jesse Saint 

 Saint Aviation, Inc. 

  jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com) 

 C: 352-427-0285 

 F: 815-377-3694  

 

 On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote: 

  

 

 

 I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same  category. One is 

 exceptionally well thought out and tested system while  the other is a 

 "let's 

 start selling it and then work on  finishing the development over promising 

 while under delivering. I  don't own a VP because my -10 build was too 

 early 

 but it is an  impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A 

 build.  

 

 Respectfully, 

 Robin 

 Do Not Archive 

  

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf 

  Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net) 

 Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM  

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Re: RV-10  Flap Positioner 

 

 I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I  spent the day at my 

 buddies 

 cold (freezing) hanger to help  trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy 

 MKIV we built. He went with  a Blue Mountain power board that has been 

 nothing but trouble,,,, and  you really need to know that stuff when it 

 fails. And yes,,,,you are  grounded until fixed. The last time it failed 

 it 

 took an  electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! 

 No  

 Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. 

 

  David Clifford 

 

 RV-10 Builder 

 Howell, MI 

  

 

 

 _____ 

 

 

 

From:  "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)> 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM  

 Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

 

 -->  RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com (wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com)>  

 

 I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good  deal if yoy 

 choose that route. 

 

 When it breaks it will  be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. 

 I 

 have the  same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle 

 position  

 twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches.  It 

 is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight. 

  

 VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not  have 

 the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the  more 

 circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to  fix and 

 you 

 better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One  reason I do not sell 16 

 seer+ 

 hvac systems. 

 

  -------- 

 Wayne Gillispie, A&amp;P 05/93 PP 10/08 

 Bldr#  40983SB Started 12/1/2009 

 N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 
	


<IMG_0781.JPG>

 [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.



I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his interconnected systems.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

And do a backup before you upgrade so you can switch back



Werner



On 11.12.2011 22:14, Bob Turner wrote:

 > 

 >

 > For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest 

not upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them 

on the old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has 

no bugs.

 >

 > I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his 

interconnected systems.

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

One of the nice things about the setup that Les has is that the AP will fly the plane all by itself.  Heading changes can easily be dialed in to the AP along with climb and descent all without any support from the EFIS units.  Make sure one provides a redundant GPS source.   Given the 430W stays up you have a moving map with com and let the AP fly the plane. Bare bones but provides a solution if both EFIS units go south in IFR conditions.

 

Bob, You are correct to not upgrade both units until you have a reliable / working update.



Jim C

N312F - 300+ hours  



On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

  

 For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.

  

 I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his interconnected systems.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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 [b]

_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

"I'd suggest not upgrading software in both units at the same time"

May be fine with the AFS, but one can not do a software upgrade on a Dynon 

Skyview unless both/all units are upgraded. it's a networked system 

(master/slave, per se) or redundancy that requires all hardware (AP servos, 

EMS, PFD, etc) are the same version otherwise the red XXX is what one will 

get. With VP, there are separate circuits for each display, so if I lose one 

VP powered circuit I'll have the display go dark (although I have a battery 

backup), if I lose another quadrant of the VP, which say my other display or 

servos are on, I lose that specific feature, but the Dynon continues to run 

with the other display being the master.



"I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his 

interconnected systems."- happened to a Glasair just this week. In his case 

a reboot was missing after the upgrade but nevertheless, you are correct it 

would crash the complete system.



--

along(at)aanet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Les,Thanks for all that info. The AP you have runs independant of the EFIS correct? So if your EFIS go down, it will run as a full backup just like any other AP? Also, I wanted to know, do you still have the TruTrak RV10 autopilot as you listed in your setup. Are you using it, if not, what price would you like for it? TT doesn't seem to stock that version any longer. Is there a reason for that?Regards, Andrew Long www.ozrv10.com > Hi Andrew > > Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the answers to > your > questions: > > 1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I made a > deliberate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to > avionics > etc. > > 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom (PMA8000B audio > panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr, > TruTrak RV10 autopilot) > > 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the > panel back on). > > 4. My concern was that I did not want to install steam gauges / "normal" > backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS screens with battery > backups > and independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy. Although I have > contemplated adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see > the payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a > few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two independent buses > each > with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the engine and > related > components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I could find. > The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the right side > of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off line > so > they are dedicated to the engine. I can also isolate the power to the > engine > (in the event of a fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything > except the engine. > > 5. I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given > the cost, why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb > quality. Besides the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is > enormous. There are are a lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very > detailed info on the cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I > can't imaging doing this on my own - I just wouldn't know where to start. > > 6. I started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) > it > duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the > panel real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X > that integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to > let me swap the -100 for the -X. > > I goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still > go > with the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface / > music interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX > doesn't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of > navigation, The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being > said, > I also have another non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install. > > Something else you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head > made by TruTrak. It is very simple as the advanced features are controlled > by the EFIS and not the AP head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10 > AP but later changed to the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$. > > Cheers > > Les > > > > _____ > > From: Andrew Long [mailto:along(at)aanet.com.au] > Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM > To: kearney(at)shaw.ca > Subject: RE: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner > > > Hi Les, > > Your stack is almost exactly the same as the configuration I am looking > at. > If I may ask some questions and keep in touch that would be great. > > 1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct power to the various > instruments? > 2. What is the full configuration of your panel by component? > 3. Do you have any pictures of the panel? > 4. What were the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection? > 5. Did you purchase all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast > Stack, > or did you make some of your own cables? > 6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200? > > The stack I am looking at is as follows: > > * > > 2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup batteries > * > > Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II) > > > > * > > Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430) > * > > PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo) > * > > GTX-327 (Transponder) > > > > * > > Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness > > I would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any > learnings > you have developed on your systems. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Andrew Long > www.ozrv10.com > >> Hi >> >> This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just >> powered > >> up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 >> EFIS >> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems >> Fast > >> Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays! >> >> All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read >> everything >> on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With >> Tim >> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas >> etc. >> I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty >> confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work >> involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes >> to > >> the tail. >> >> After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define >> circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being >> switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't >> imagine >> using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool >> watching >> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration >> settings on the EFIS. >> >> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if >> the >> VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight, >> my >> EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge >> issue. >> >> A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has >> been >> stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve. >> >> Cheers >> >> Les >> #40643 >> >> _____ >> >> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint >> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner >> >> >> I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a >> VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way >> I >> could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches, >> breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as >> giving >> a >> lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 >> hours > >> flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one >> unit >> back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As >> Robin > >> said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with >> "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM. >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >> C: 352-427-0285 >> F: 815-377-3694 >> >> On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote: >> >> >> >> I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is >> exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a >> "let's >> start selling it and then work on finishing the development over >> promising > >> while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too >> early >> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A >> build. >> >> Respectfully, >> Robin >> Do Not Archive >> >> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf >> Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net >> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner >> >> I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my >> buddies >> cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the >> Cozy > >> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been >> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it >> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed >> it >> took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! >> No >> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. >> >> David Clifford >> >> RV-10 Builder >> Howell, MI >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> >> > From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM >> Subject: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> >> >> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if >> yoy >> choose that route. >> >> When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in >> place. >> I >> have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle >> position >> twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. >> It > >> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight. >> >> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not >> have >> the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more >> circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and >> you >> better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 >> seer+ >> hvac systems. >> >> -------- >> Wayne Gillispie, A&amp;P 05/93 PP 10/08 >> Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009 >> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012. >> >> >> >> >> >> > >    [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

If you want an autopilot that can stand alone, I'll put in a pitch for Trio.

I have no connection to the company, it's just that I see them as the 'little guy' and I think competition with the big guys is a good thing. With their recent price reduction they are very competitive.



I cannot vouch for their interface with AFS; but I have a GRT EFIS (HX) and it interfaces perfectly with it. And, works fine in a stand-alone mode.

Of course like all these autopilots it can only follow a GPS signal, not an ILS or VOR, in the stand alone mode.



If you decide to go this route be sure to order the auto pitch trim option. I use this even when hand-flying (it can be used when the servos are off) for a very fine pitch trim adjustment.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Andrew

 I have yet to investigate all the possible A/P EFIS failure  modes. I suspect the A/P would work quite fine without the EFIS screens,  however. It would mean just a bit more work to get the data into the A/P head.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can get a more authoratiative answer -  I still have a stack of manuals to read.

 I don't have the TruTrak RV10 A/P (never did). I changed  my order before it was shipped.

 Cheers

 Les

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew  Long

Sent: December-11-11 7:35 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast  Stack Based Panel

Hi Les,

Thanks for all that info. The AP you have runs  independant of the EFIS correct? So if your EFIS go down, it will run as a full  backup just like any other AP? 

Also, I wanted to know, do you still  have the TruTrak RV10 autopilot as  you listed in your setup. Are you using it, if not, what price would you like  for it? TT doesn't seem to stock that version any longer. Is there a reason for  that?

Regards, 

Andrew Long 

www.ozrv10.com 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Andrew  

 Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the  answers to 

 your 

 questions: 

 1. No. I have  internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I made a 

 deliberate  decision to eliminate any high power switches related to 

 avionics  

 etc. 

 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top  to bottom (PMA8000B audio 

 panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30  NavCom, Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr, 

 TruTrak RV10 autopilot) 

 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the  

 panel back on). 

 4. My concern was that I did not want  to install steam gauges / "normal" 

 backups if at all possible. By  having dual EFIS screens with battery 

 backups 

 and independent  AHRS, I have complete redundancy. Although I have 

 contemplated adding  an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see 

 the payback  for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a 

 few  interesting twists. The engine is powered by two independent buses 

 each  

 with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the engine and  

 related 

 components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the  best I could find. 

 The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they  are on the right side 

 of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take  both batteries off line 

 so 

 they are dedicated to the engine. I  can also isolate the power to the 

 engine 

 (in the event of a  fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything 

 except the engine.  

 5. I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast  Stack). Given 

 the cost, why would you want to build your own. Tim's  cables have superb 

 quality. Besides the potential for screwing up on  home-grown cables is 

 enormous. There are are a lot of pins to be  mapped. Tim also provides very 

 detailed info on the cables and how the  pins are mapped. Seeing this, I 

 can't imaging doing this on my own - I  just wouldn't know where to start. 

 6. I started out with a  VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) 

 it 

  duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the 

  panel real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X  

 that integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed  to 

 let me swap the -100 for the -X. 

 I goggled the  PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still 

 go 

  with the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface /  

 music interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The  PAR100EX 

 doesn't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent  sources of 

 navigation, The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other.  That being 

 said, 

 I also have another non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS  receiver I plan to install. 

 Something else you may not know.  There is an AFS specific autopilot head 

 made by TruTrak. It is very  simple as the advanced features are controlled 

 by the EFIS and not the  AP head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10 

 AP but later changed  to the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$. 

 Cheers  

 Les 

 _____ 

From: Andrew Long [mailto:along(at)aanet.com.au] 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sent:  December-11-11 2:36 AM 

 To: kearney(at)shaw.ca 

 Subject: RE:  Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

 Hi Les, 

 Your stack is almost exactly the same as the configuration I am looking  

 at. 

 If I may ask some questions and keep in touch that would  be great. 

 1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct  power to the various 

 instruments? 

 2. What is the full  configuration of your panel by component? 

 3. Do you have any pictures  of the panel? 

 4. What were the areas of concern that you addressed in  the selection? 

 5. Did you purchase all the cables and Hub from Approach  Systems Fast 

 Stack, 

 or did you make some of your own cables?  

 6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200? 

 The stack I am  looking at is as follows: 

 * 

 2 x Advanced  Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup batteries 

 * 

  Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II) 

 * 

 Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430) 

 * 

 PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo) 

 * 

 GTX-327  (Transponder) 

 * 

 Vertical  Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness 

 I would like any opinions  you could offer on my selection, and any 

 learnings 

 you have  developed on your systems. 

 Thanks in advance. 

 Regards, 

 Andrew Long 

 www.ozrv10.com 

> Hi 

> 

> This is one topic that I can add a bit  of perspective. I have just 

> powered 

> up the  avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500 

>  EFIS 

> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach  Systems 

> Fast 

> Stack. No smoke and lots of  pretty displays! 

> 

> All the wiring was done by me, myself  and I. Although I have read 

> everything 

> on the VP-X  etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With 

> Tim  

> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead,  antennas 

> etc. 

> I started slowly as I was learning as I  went but by the end I was pretty 

> confident as to how things would  turn out. There is still a lot of work 

> involved in wiring - I was  surprised about the amount of wire that goes 

> to 

> the tail. 

> 

> After seeing how the VP-X spins  up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define 

> circuits and how they  operate, how the number of high energy wires being 

> switched was  reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't 

> imagine  

> using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool  

> watching 

> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I  changed the VP-X configuration 

> settings on the EFIS. 

>  

> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my  case, if 

> the 

> VP-X fails I need only replace the box.  Even if this happened in flight, 

> my 

> EFIS screens have  internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge 

> issue.  

> 

> A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim  (Approach Systems) has 

> been 

> stellar. Both have been  very helpful getting up a steep learning curve. 

> 

> Cheers  

> 

> Les 

> #40643 

> 

>  _____ 

> 

> 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint  

> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM 

> To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

> Subject: Re: Re: RV-10 Flap  Positioner 

> 

> 

> I agree completely with this.  I just finished wiring an airframe with a 

> VP-200. It took 2 days  from start to finish. There is absolutely no way 

> I 

>  could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,  

> breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as  

> giving 

> a 

> lot more information about a  problem when you have it. In over 2,000 

> hours 

>  flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one  

> unit 

> back to VP for repair, and have never had a  completely dead unit. As 

> Robin 

> said, you  can't lump quality equipment made by VP with 

> "nothing-but-headache"  stuff from BM. 

> 

> Jesse Saint 

> Saint  Aviation, Inc. 

> jesse(at)saintaviation.com 

> C: 352-427-0285  

> F: 815-377-3694 

> 

> On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47  PM, Robin Marks wrote: 

> 

> 

> 

> I  don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is 

>  exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a  

> "let's 

> start selling it and then work on finishing the  development over 

> promising 

> while under  delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too 

> early  

> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to  my 8A 

> build. 

> 

> Respectfully, 

>  Robin 

> Do Not Archive 

> 

> 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf 

>  Ofdavidsoutpost(at)comcast.net 

> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29  PM 

> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

> Subject: Re: RV10-List:  Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

> 

> I could not agree more with  Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my 

> buddies 

> cold  (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the 

>  Cozy 

> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power  board that has been 

> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to  know that stuff when it 

> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until  fixed. The last time it failed 

> it 

> took an electronic  engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! 

> No  

> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me. 

>  

> David Clifford 

> 

> RV-10 Builder 

>  Howell, MI 

> 

> 

> 

> _____  

> 

> 

> 

From: "rv10flyer"  <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> 

[quote]> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com  

> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM 

> Subject:  Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner 

> 

> --> RV10-List  message posted by: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> 

>  

> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal  if 

> yoy 

> choose that route. 

> 

>  When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in 

>  place. 

> I 

> have the same problem as others with having  to hit the down toggle 

> position 

> twice to go from 18 to  33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. 

> It 

> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.  

> 

> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your  grounded. I did not 

> have 

> the money for it anyway. I  have learned with hvac systems that the more 

> circuit boards you put  on something the more expensive it is to fix and 

> you 

>  better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16  

> seer+ 

> hvac systems. 

> 

> --------  

> Wayne Gillispie, A&amp;P 05/93 PP 10/08 

> Bldr#  40983SB Started 12/1/2009 

> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.  

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  

 	  Quote: 	

href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with different software).  The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS units and the AP.  GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP as well.  

 

Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP stand alone mode (heading and alt hold).  Pressing the EFIS button on the AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS to command the AP.  Works very well.

 

Jim C

N312F 300+ hours

  [quote][b]

_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Jim

My A/P is a TruTrak branded with the AFS logo. Is that different from yours. 

Cheers

Les 



Sent from my iPhone



On 2011-12-11, at 8:06 PM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with different software).  The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS units and the AP.  GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP as well.  

 

Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP stand alone mode (heading and alt hold).  Pressing the EFIS button on the AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS to command the AP.  Works very well.

 

Jim C

N312F 300+ hours

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

along(at)aanet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Jim,Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate alt as well as heading?)My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independant of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be coupled to a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just clarifying.....   Regards, Andrew Long www.ozrv10.com > I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT > with > different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS > units > and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP > as well. > > Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP > stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the > AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the > EFIS to command the AP. Works very well. > > Jim C > N312F 300+ hours >    [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Neither the TruTrak, nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an EFIS.

If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV approach without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course, to do this.



Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC interface to couple to them for the ILS.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

along(at)aanet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Hi Bob,But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is fine. I would couple the Heading to the EFIS and the Garmin GPS with an ability to uncouple as  per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all else is lost that can manually be tuned in.Do you know which of the AP's from TruTrak and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?Regards, Andrew Long www.ozrv10.com > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> > > Neither the TruTrak, nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an > EFIS. > If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV approach > without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course, to do this. > > Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC interface to couple to them for the ILS. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728 > > > > > > > > --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > >    [quote][b]

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Andrew



This manual show give you the info you want regarding the AFS ap.  



http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AFS%20Pilot%20Installation%20Manual.pdf



Cheers 



Les

---

along(at)aanet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Thanks.Regards, Andrew Long www.ozrv10.com > --> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> > > > Andrew > > This manual show give you the info you want regarding the AFS ap. > > http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AFS%20Pilot%20Installation%20Manual.pdf > > Cheers > > Les > > > ---

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

Not entirely true.  The Trutrak Sourcerer has the capability.  But whether

the additional expense is worth the added value is another discussion.

Check out the following table.



http://www.trutrakap.com/autopilot2_2.html



--

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

My TT VSGV has a switch (mine(AP signal source)) which allows (1) track and

pitch synchronization, altitude hold; (2) LNAV VNAV with the Cheltons and

(3) LNAV with the GRT Sport. 



--

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

I also have a similar configuration using a pair of AFS, TT AFS AP, VP200, etc.  I have a switch next to the AFS TT AP that will switch ARINC inputs from the AFS units to the GTN650 so in addition to the AP alt/hdg mode I can drive the AP directly from  the GTN if I want.

 

 

 Michael

 

 Sent from my iPad2

 

 On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:17 PM, "Jim Combs" <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

 

 

 [quote] I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with different software).  The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS units and the AP.  GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP as well.  

 

 Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP stand alone mode (heading and alt hold).  Pressing the EFIS button on the AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS to command the AP.  Works very well.

 

 Jim C

 N312F 300+ hours

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ectric.com

">www.buildersbooks.com

builthelp.com

.matronics.com/contribution

p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



	
 

 [b]

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel

By itself no, but when coupled with the AFS efis or other ARINC input yes.

 

 

 Michael

 

 Sent from my iPad2

 

 On Dec 11, 2011, at 10:26 PM, "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au (along(at)aanet.com.au)> wrote:

 

 

 

 [quote] Hi Jim,

 

 Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate alt as well as heading?)

 

 My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independant of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be coupled to a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just clarifying.....   

 

 Regards, 

 Andrew Long 

 www.ozrv10.com 

 

 > I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT 

 > with 

 > different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS 

 > units 

 > and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP 

 > as well. 

 > 

 > Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP 

 > stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the 

 > AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the 

 > EFIS to command the AP. Works very well. 

 > 

 > Jim C 

 > N312F 300+ hours 

 > 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ectric.com

">www.buildersbooks.com

builthelp.com

.matronics.com/contribution

p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



	
 

 [b]

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