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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: Here's a good one |
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I'm working on an AG5B. It's serial number 36 so it's a one-of-a-kind airplane.
This plane was owned by a guy who did a LOT of formation flying. When I got the plane, it had not any ANY routine maintenance in a very long time. But, that's another story. Back to formation flying.
When I first flew this plane, I thought the controls had a lot of play in them; particularly on the pilots side. I got under the panel and watched the U-joints. Hmm. Seems like a lot of play to me. Maybe it's just me. So, after installing a new airbox [which increases the manifold pressure by up to an inch Hg (never less than .8 inches Hg increase)] I gave the plane back to its owner to fly for a while.
The owner also noted there was a lot of play. So, I ordered new U-Joint. Garner warned me they'd be difficult to drill, and they were.
After installing the pilot's side first, I moved the yoke back and forth. The play was still there, though not as much; I would say 1/4 inch at the yoke. I reached up to the sprocket for the control chain and there was play between the shaft the u-joint is on and the sprocket. The only thing that could be is the pin that holds the sprocket to the shaft. It must be crowded out. Now, there's a new one.
I disassembled the shaft assembly and it wouldn't come out. I used a drift into the shaft to knock it out. It was really stuck. The roller bearings to the shaft were caked with dried grease, the bearings were anything but smooth. The shaft has a flat spot in it.
I have a complete control assembly from a 79 Tiger. I took it apart and after 32 years, the grease was still good and the bearings smooth.
Bob S., what grease was used in 79? what grease was used in the AG5B?
Just a heads up. If you do a lot of formation flying, watch for play in the yokes.
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grumpyparts
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
Location: EGHH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Here's a good one |
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When considering buying some pre-drilled universal joints from True Flight, which BTW they didn't have, Loyd passed on this little tip bit.
If this is an early AG (before 2003) the insert in the end of the control shaft was solid and would not compress around the universal shaft which allowed slack in the joint. This insert should be modified by cutting a 0.130 inch slot in the bushing. This will allow the shaft and insert to tighten around the end of the universal which will eliminate all of the free-play in the joint. Many have thought the universal was worn when what they actually had was slack in the shaft joint. I would modify the insert, reassemble the control shaft then recheck the amount of play in the universal. Unless the boot on the universal is torn, chances are that the universal is good.
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: Here's a good one |
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Here is the sprocket and shaft. No entries in the log books for this shaft. It looks like it had been assembled at the factory with the end of the shaft ground in order to fix an obviously bad pin installation. I didn't remove the pin. I did try to wedge the pin to tighten the sprocket. I wouldn't trust it.
Both universal joints had some play compared to new ones. The biggest problem was the loose sprocket.
From: grumpyparts <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Here's a good one
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com (i.r.m(at)btinternet.com)>
When considering buying some pre-drilled universal joints from True Flight, which BTW they didn't have, Loyd passed on this little tip bit.
If this is an early AG (before 2003) the insert in the end of the control shaft was solid and would not compress around the universal shaft which allowed slack in the joint. This insert should be modified by cutting a 0.130 inch slot in the bushing. This will allow the shaft and insert to tighten around the end of the universal which will eliminate all of the free-play in the joint. Many have thought the universal was worn when what they actually had was slack in the shaft joint. I would modify the insert, reassemble the control shaft then recheck the amount of play in the universal. Unless the boot on the universal is torn, chances are that the universal is good.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop * AeroElectric a target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks; -Ma= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<========================http://www.ma======================
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:28 am Post subject: Here's a good one |
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Gary:
What would your reasoning be that the formation flying was the cause?
And why would serial number 36 make it a one of a kind plane? (As in: AG5B-10036 ?)
Saw your pictures... What a PITA job. GOOD LUCK.
Barry
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I'm working on an AG5B. It's serial number 36 so it's a one-of-a-kind airplane.
This plane was owned by a guy who did a LOT of formation flying. When I got the plane, it had not any ANY routine maintenance in a very long time. But, that's another story. Back to formation flying.
When I first flew this plane, I thought the controls had a lot of play in them; particularly on the pilots side. I got under the panel and watched the U-joints. Hmm. Seems like a lot of play to me. Maybe it's just me. So, after installing a new airbox [which increases the manifold pressure by up to an inch Hg (never less than .8 inches Hg increase)] I gave the plane back to its owner to fly for a while.
The owner also noted there was a lot of play. So, I ordered new U-Joint. Garner warned me they'd be difficult to drill, and they were.
After installing the pilot's side first, I moved the yoke back and forth. The play was still there, though not as much; I would say 1/4 inch at the yoke. I reached up to the sprocket for the control chain and there was play between the shaft the u-joint is on and the sprocket. The only thing that could be is the pin that holds the sprocket to the shaft. It must be crowded out. Now, there's a new one.
I disassembled the shaft assembly and it wouldn't come out. I used a drift into the shaft to knock it out. It was really stuck. The roller bearings to the shaft were caked with dried grease, the bearings were anything but smooth. The shaft has a flat spot in it.
I have a complete control assembly from a 79 Tiger. I took it apart and after 32 years, the grease was still good and the bearings smooth.
Bob S., what grease was used in 79? what grease was used in the AG5B?
Just a heads up. If you do a lot of formation flying, watch for play in the yokes.
| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:20 am Post subject: Here's a good one |
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On 12/13/2011 6:38 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
| Quote: | Here is the sprocket and shaft. No entries in the log books for this
shaft. It looks like it had been assembled at the factory with the end
of the shaft ground in order to fix an obviously bad pin installation. I
didn't remove the pin. I did try to wedge the pin to tighten the
sprocket. I wouldn't trust it.
Both universal joints had some play compared to new ones. The biggest
problem was the loose sprocket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the photo is looks like the pin doesn't fit the shaft hole on one
|
side (pretty sloppy work). How is the fit at the opposite end? The pin
must be a press fit in the gear stud that fits inside the shaft, and
maybe in the shaft as well. I'd drive the pin out as maybe the hole in
the gear stub has worn and it is loose inside. You could ream the parts
and have an oversize pin machined on a lathe possibly, or just buy new
parts (less hassle).
Cliff
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: Here's a good one |
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I think the problem was there when the plane was made. The constant small control corrections while formation flying, especially by a ham-fisted pilot, aggravated the problem. All of the early AG5Bs were different from each other. I only wish I had the money to buy the Type Certificate.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Here's a good one
Gary:
What would your reasoning be that the formation flying was the cause?
And why would serial number 36 make it a one of a kind plane? (As in: AG5B-10036 ?)
Saw your pictures... What a PITA job. GOOD LUCK.
Barry
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I'm working on an AG5B. It's serial number 36 so it's a one-of-a-kind airplane.
This plane was owned by a guy who did a LOT of formation flying. When I got the plane, it had not any ANY routine maintenance in a very long time. But, that's another story. Back to formation flying.
When I first flew this plane, I thought the controls had a lot of play in them; particularly on the pilots side. I got under the panel and watched the U-joints. Hmm. Seems like a lot of play to me. Maybe it's just me. So, after installing a new airbox [which increases the manifold pressure by up to an inch Hg (never less than .8 inches Hg increase)] I gave the plane back to its owner to fly for a while.
The owner also noted there was a lot of play. So, I ordered new U-Joint. Garner warned me they'd be difficult to drill, and they were.
After installing the pilot's side first, I moved the yoke back and forth. The play was still there, though not as much; I would say 1/4 inch at the yoke. I reached up to the sprocket for the control chain and there was play between the shaft the u-joint is on and the sprocket. The only thing that could be is the pin that holds the sprocket to the shaft. It must be crowded out. Now, there's a new one.
I disassembled the shaft assembly and it wouldn't come out. I used a drift into the shaft to knock it out. It was really stuck. The roller bearings to the shaft were caked with dried grease, the bearings were anything but smooth. The shaft has a flat spot in it.
I have a complete control assembly from a 79 Tiger. I took it apart and after 32 years, the grease was still good and the bearings smooth.
Bob S., what grease was used in 79? what grease was used in the AG5B?
Just a heads up. If you do a lot of formation flying, watch for play in the yokes.
| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
roElectric arget="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co"nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tea="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro====================
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[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: Here's a good one |
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The surface on which the roller bearings ride has been ground off. When I got the chain off I tried to turn it without extra drag. It was VERY rough. This entire part should have been scrapped at the factory.
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Here's a good one
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)>
On 12/13/2011 6:38 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
| Quote: | Here is the sprocket and shaft. No entries in the log books for this
shaft. It looks like it had been assembled at the factory with the end
of the shaft ground in order to fix an obviously bad pin installation. I
didn't remove the pin. I did try to wedge the pin to tighten the
sprocket. I wouldn't trust it.
Both universal joints had some play compared to new ones. The biggest
problem was the loose sprocket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the photo is looks like the pin doesn't fit the shaft hole on one side (pretty sloppy work). How is the fit at the opposite end? The pin must be a press fit in the gear stud that fits inside the shaft, and maybe in the shaft as well. I'd drive the pin out as maybe the hole in the gear stub has worn and it is loose inside. You could ream the parts and have an oversize pin machined on a lathe possibly, or just buy new parts (less hassle).
|
The Builder's Bookstore http://www.ma======================
[quote][b]
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