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Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

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jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:44 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now 

that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get 

some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! ). 

Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system 

from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.



http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps



They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position 

during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to 

incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps 

instead of going straight to reflex.



At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of 

have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which 

isn't ideal in a go-around situation.



I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or touch-n-goes.



Jae

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:14 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Not to make it simpler than it really is....I just put the switch up and fly

the plane.  I don't see that much difference in the climb performance....at

least not enough to warrant trying to get the flaps to 0....



I like the FPS, think it works great and have no plans to change it in the

future.  But with that said, if something else came along that would reduce

a couple of failure points....I might think about it.



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

I just put the flaps all the way up and forget about it.  The motor is slow enough and the airplane powerful enough that it really doesn't matter.

 

A bigger issue for me on T&Gs is moving the elevator trim, when I'm at a forward CG.  The trim motor is painfully slow, and combined with the safety trim (which only gives you a couple seconds of trim at a time), it takes a long time to get retrimmed.  I wouldn't want the trim motor any faster, though, for cruise trim.  Maybe I'll finally set up that dual-speed thing.

  

-Rob

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com (jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com (jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com)>

  

  Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! ). Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.

  

 http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps

 

 They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps instead of going straight to reflex.

  

 At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which isn't ideal in a go-around situation.

 

 I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or touch-n-goes.

 

 Jae

 

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 le, List Admin.

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-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



  [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Same here...I just flip it up and hit the power.  The RV-10 has

so much power that even with full flaps you'll get off the ground

and then you'll be climbing out in no time.  With dual speed

trim, the flap motor is slow enough and the trim fast enough

when down low and slow that the trim isn't a huge issue either

as long as you're paying attention and trimming.  For people who

are behind the airplane a lot, transitioning from slower

aircraft, it make take some adjustment...but for someone who

flies the RV-10 as their plane, it's just 2nd nature.

I wouldn't want a system that stops on the way up...I want it

all the way to reflex when I lift them.



Tim



On 12/15/2011 12:10 PM, Rene Felker wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Not to make it simpler than it really is....I just put the switch up and fly

 the plane.  I don't see that much difference in the climb performance....at

 least not enough to warrant trying to get the flaps to 0....



 I like the FPS, think it works great and have no plans to change it in the

 future.  But with that said, if something else came along that would reduce

 a couple of failure points....I might think about it.



 Rene' Felker

 N423CF

 801-721-6080

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

I second Tim and Rene's statements. I really like that setup. Works great

Geoff Combs



--

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

I like it, or at least don't feel any need for change.  Apply power, 

raise flaps, say 'bye.



The only time I use 0 and the first notch of flaps is to slow it down 

for landing.  I have been using full flaps for all landings.



The only time FPS is inconvenient is before takeoff.  I land with full 

flaps and keep them down for exit and entry.  Before takeoff, I have to 

either let them come all the way up, then bring them down, or time it on 

the way down.



I do have the 2 speed trim installed.  I assume it has been working and 

have had no reason to change anything.  Will have to pay attention and 

see if I can detect it's operation.



Bill "loves flying behind the big fan" Watson



On 12/15/2011 12:39 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



  Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now 

 that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally 

 get some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! ). 

 Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS 

 system from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.



 http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps 

 They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position 

 during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way 

 to incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps 

 instead of going straight to reflex.



 At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of 

 have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which 

 isn't ideal in a go-around situation.



 I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or 

 touch-n-goes.



 Jae

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Great, thanks for the feedback.       I will practice more by just hitting the flaps up switch then.       

       

       On a related note, I have been using 0 degree flaps for most of my       takeoffs for shorter ground rolls, but i may amend my checklist to       use reflex for flaps on takeoff as well then. It would certainly       simplify the checklist further.       

       

       Then for short-field takeoffs, i can use the 0 degree position.       Has anyone tried short-field takeoffs with half flaps?       

       

       Jae

     

     

     -- 

     [quote]#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011[b]

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

In my case, I wasn't completely forthcoming...

     

     I do use half flaps for all takeoffs.  Because home base is a rough     field, I use half for takeoff and full for landings but find the     same positions work well for all surfaces and conditions so far.     After takeoff, I go directly to reflex for climb and cruise.

     

     So, the only time FPS is 'inconvenient' is between loading and     takeoff.  I always have the flaps down for loading so I have to     raise them to half flaps before takeoff.  Just part of my standard     checklist procedure now.

     

     Once in flight, I bring them down in increments to slow for the     pattern and landing but if a go-around is required, it's just up and     go.

     

     FPS could be a real downer if I were doing T&Gs but I just don't     do them.

     

     I haven't quite figured out how I will use flaps on real world     approaches.  On my Maule, I'd select reflex (-10deg) to come down     the glide slope.  Even with a 200' break-out, it was easy to slow to     landing speed, drop the flaps and hit the mark.  Not sure that is     the way to go on the '10 but long 90 knot approaches just aren't     welcome when you are mixing it up with jet traffic.

     

     

     On 12/15/2011 3:08 PM, Jae Chang wrote:     [quote]              Great, thanks for the         feedback. I will practice more by just hitting the flaps up         switch then. 

         

         On a related note, I have been using 0 degree flaps for most of         my takeoffs for shorter ground rolls, but i may amend my         checklist to use reflex for flaps on takeoff as well then. It         would certainly simplify the checklist further. 

         

         Then for short-field takeoffs, i can use the 0 degree position.         Has anyone tried short-field takeoffs with half flaps? 

         

         Jae

       

                     [b]

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

With so much power, I have never worried about retracing the flaps all the way on go around. Perhaps in high altitude and hot days it would make a difference. 



Do not archive. 



Rob Kermanj 

Sent from my iPad



On Dec 15, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! ). Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.

 

 http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps

 

 They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps instead of going straight to reflex.

 

 At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which isn't ideal in a go-around situation.

 

 I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or touch-n-goes.

 

 Jae

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Bill,



FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on, flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with flaps down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the flaps. At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.



Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to wait. If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do 120 KIAS and no flaps.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

I'm on a 2000' grass strip.  I keep flaps down for loading, flaps up for startup, taxi, and half flaps for take off.  FPS works great, in my scenarios I never need to manually stop the flaps.



If you have never taken off with half flaps, you need to try it.  I think you'll really like it.....



-Mike Kraus

N213RV flying



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 15, 2011, at 5:23 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bill,

 

 FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on, flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with flaps down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the flaps. At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.

 

 Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to wait. If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do 120 KIAS and no flaps.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360991#360991

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner

Bob, I like the flaps up at engine start then down before takeoff.  I 

have a good bit of debris along some of my taxi ways and I know I'll 

regret not pulling them up for taxi.  Thanks.



Bill



On 12/15/2011 5:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bill,



 FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on, flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with flaps down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the flaps. At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.



 Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to wait. If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do 120 KIAS and no flaps.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

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