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Low Resistance Ignition Wires

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shinden33

Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

All,



My Russian ignition system gave out a few years ago and I replaced it with an automotive wire kit.  Since then the pencil on my left mag has burned through the mag cap twice, once a year and half ago and once two weeks ago, causing the mag to ground to the case and quit.  The general consensus is that these are higher resistance wires and thus causing the electrons for find a easier path.  



Anyone have any ideas, experience or insight?



Scott

Yak-52

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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

Hmmmmm.  That has not happen to me.

 Pappy

  

  In a message dated 1/9/2012 1:56:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  scott.t.glaser(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "shinden33"    <scott.t.glaser(at)gmail.com>



All,



My Russian ignition system    gave out a few years ago and I replaced it with an automotive wire kit.     Since then the pencil on my left mag has burned through the mag cap twice,    once a year and half ago and once two weeks ago, causing the mag to ground to    the case and quit.  The general consensus is that these are higher    resistance wires and thus causing the electrons for find a easier path.     



Anyone have any ideas, experience or    insight?



Scott

Yak-52



--------

The Defiant    Company

www.defiantco.com





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362851#362851

	


 [quote][b]

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

One of the things that has become quite obvious with the M9-x magnetos 

is the fact the rotor position is not or never has been properly 

positioned once the magnetos are properly timed.  When the rotor 

position is properly set, the leading finger will be directly under the 

tab on the cap.  This is the reason there are slots in the 3 mounting 

screw holes in the rotors.  And it doesn't matter if it's a single 

finger or double finger rotor.  The leading finger is the key (counter 

clockwise rotation).  If the rotor is not properly positioned the spark 

must "jump" the gap to the tab on the cap thus causing additional wear.  

Typically one can see tracks in the cap which show a slightly discolored 

mark in the cap just prior to the tab.  If anyone wants a 

diagram/drawing of how to properly position the rotor on the mag after 

it is properly timed, send me an email I will attach it to a reply.



Additionally it is very important to have the spark plug gap at around 

.020".  Since we are using the same coil as with the old Russian or 

Chinese wiring harness, we should not be using plug gaps of .025-.030" 

which can occur by not gaping the plugs when they are first installed.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/9/2012 12:53 PM, shinden33 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 All,



 My Russian ignition system gave out a few years ago and I replaced it with an automotive wire kit.  Since then the pencil on my left mag has burned through the mag cap twice, once a year and half ago and once two weeks ago, causing the mag to ground to the case and quit.  The general consensus is that these are higher resistance wires and thus causing the electrons for find a easier path.



 Anyone have any ideas, experience or insight?



 Scott

 Yak-52



 --------

 The Defiant Company

 www.defiantco.com





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362851#362851

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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

Hi Dennis;



I agree that could very well be the problem in this case but there is a bit 

more to it.

It should not be necessary to adjust the rotor finger after timing the mag. 

to the engine.  It must line up with the index mark on the case which 

ensures it is in the correct location relative to the distributor tabs.



If it does not line up (within +/-1mm) the magneto INTERNAL timing is not 

correct.

If you are installing anything other than a new or overhauled and certified 

mag. the internal timing must be checked and adjusted if necessary.



Walt



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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

Timing the Russian mag includes more than just checking to see when the

points open.  There is also a rotor setting that must be correct.  The

reason I mention this is because of the potential to have too large of a

gap when the mag fires the pulse.  Either too large a gap between the

actual mag rotor and the cap contact, or the plugs themselves.  



So there are a number of things at issue here. 



1.  What plugs are you using and what is their exact gap that you have

them set to? 

2.  Have you set the mag rotor correctly in relationship to the mags

timing (See Dennis Savarese's pictures of how to do that).  

3.  You replaced your Russian wires with "an automotive wire kit".

Who's?  Dennis or Barry's, or was it something you picked up off the

shelf yourself, and if so what exact wires were used?  



One statement you made is right on the money....  but not quite

complete.  You said: "higher resistance wires and thus causing the

electrons for find a easier path."   



Yes, electricity will always find the path of least resistance.  It is

unlikely to be the spark plug wires if you used the same wires in both

the left and right mags, and only the left is burning up.   That said,

increased spark plug gap will "raise the resistance", as will a rotor

that is too far away from the caps spark plug wire fitting.  



Other things that could cause more resistance could relate to how you

managed to put the spark plug wires into the cap.... did you use the

screw in sharp pointed piece and did it penetrate all the new wires

correctly to make a good contact?  Is it possible that you have the

POINT GAP in the MAG's POINTS set incorrectly?   



Lastly, I would really like to see a picture of how the pencil burned

through the mag cap.  Any kind of carbon trail that is not totally

removed from a previous incident will cause it to happen again much

easier.  So, it would be a good thing to be able to see the damage with

a picture.  



Bottom line, you are correct.  If the resistance becomes too high going

to the spark plugs, it is possible for the high voltage to "find"

another path, but there are a lot of things other than the wires

themselves that could cause this. 



Mark Bitterlich



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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

That's exactly what I'm talking about Walt.  I've seen so many rotor 

fingers not lined up with the scribe mark after the magneto is properly 

timed, it isn't even funny.   I've even had someone call me on the phone 

and tell me they were rotating the ROTOR in the slots in an effort to 

time the magneto!



All I am saying is it is a very good idea to check this setting once the 

mags are properly timed because of how many I have seen that are not 

properly set.

Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/9/2012 2:01 PM, Walter Lannon wrote:

[quote] 



 Hi Dennis;



 I agree that could very well be the problem in this case but there is 

 a bit more to it.

 It should not be necessary to adjust the rotor finger after timing the 

 mag. to the engine.  It must line up with the index mark on the case 

 which ensures it is in the correct location relative to the 

 distributor tabs.



 If it does not line up (within +/-1mm) the magneto INTERNAL timing is 

 not correct.

 If you are installing anything other than a new or overhauled and 

 certified mag. the internal timing must be checked and adjusted if 

 necessary.



 Walt



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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

Just a further comment on this if I may concerning "higher resistance

spark plug wires".  Both kits that I have seen (both Dennis's and

Barry's) are using extremely high quality 8mm spark plug wires or

larger, and in addition are "racing" types used in very high performance

automobiles.  These systems support firing voltages as high as 45,000

volts or more without breakdown.  Their resistance values will work

perfectly with anything from systems as small as those used on a

lawn-mower to those used in 2000 horsepower racing engines.  



Keep in mind that in any ignition system, what determines the actual

firing voltage that the coil actually develops is ultimately a factor of

the total resistance to ground.  While wires do have some resistance, of

course ... the actual HUGE resistance comes from AIR GAPS!  Common sense

applies.... will electricity flow easier through wire (ANY KIND OF WIRE)

, or across an air gap?   



Voltage will build up in a coil, until an actual spark is achieved at

the spark plug.  The larger the spark plug gap (or any OTHER gap, like

at the mag rotor) is, the higher the voltage will be that is required to

JUMP that gap.  



The total resistance is a factor of the wire (very low resistance) and

air gaps (very high resistance).  



There is in fact a LIMIT to this, which then brings into discussion coil

saturation, where higher voltage does not occur, but current increases

and so does heat... which leads to coil failure.  



So if you have electricity blowing holes through things that they should

not be, start checking GAPS ... ALL THE GAPS!  Points, rotors, plugs,

etc.  If you suspect you have bad spark plug wires, you can always check

them, but make no mistake that racing wires such as are used in these

kits are better and not worse than what was originally there.  The

original Russian wires did indeed have lower resistance end to end, but

they also had very poor insulation and BAD BAD leakage, which amounted

to an overall poorer performance than the new wires you have now. 



Mark Bitterlich

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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: Low Resistance Ignition Wires

What these 8 mm spiro wounded cables also do much better, is transfering the

energy of the high-frequency components in the ignition current.

The low-resistance solid core wires used by the Russians fail to pass these

high frequency currents. That's why at the end Dennis' plug wires deliver

MORE power to the plugs.

To give credit to the Russians: the cables they used originally were always

of very high quality, they were also used in their missile systems. But they

also changed the whole wiring quite regularly.



Jan



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