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napierm(at)cisco.com
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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Hey Joel,
Couple of questions:
Why is the Tygon any better than Gates Barricade or similar vapor blocking
hoses?
Is the cost of the Tygon really $2 per foot? If so, you wanted it badly
enough to be willing to buy a whole roll. What's so good about it?
Thanks,
Mark
| Quote: |
1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
From: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com>
Kitfoxers,
I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the
header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com
Kitfox V 912ULS
Full Lotus 1650s this summer!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362906#362906
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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For starters, you can see fuel flowing from the wing tanks through tygon. It's a comforting sight at 9K feet above lake Michigan. 2 bucks a foot seems steep though. Can't you buy it by the foot from ACS?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
From: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
Hey Joel,
Couple of questions:
Why is the Tygon any better than Gates Barricade or similar vapor blocking
hoses?
Is the cost of the Tygon really $2 per foot? If so, you wanted it badly
enough to be willing to buy a whole roll. What's so good about it?
Thanks,
Mark
| Quote: |
1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
From: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)>
Kitfoxers,
I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the
header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)
Kitfox V 912ULS
Full Lotus 1650s this summer!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362906#362906
|
_-========================ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" &nbs===================
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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PMorel
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Locust Grove, GA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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I'm interested.....you need to list this on TeamKitFox in the classifieds...I'm sure you'll get more interested builders
Paul
From: Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
To: Kitfox-List Digest List <kitfox-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 3:00:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
[url=http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-01-09&Archive=Kitfox]http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-01-09&Archive=Kitfox[/url]
Text Version:
[url=http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-01-09&Archive=Kitfox]http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-01-09&Archive=Kitfox[/url]
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 01/09/12: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
From: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)>
Kitfoxers,
I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Paul Morel
912 Speedster
Locust Grove, GA
www.WingsAirPhotos.com |
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com (msm_9949(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | For starters, you can see fuel flowing from the wing tanks through tygon. It's a comforting sight at 9K feet above lake Michigan. 2 bucks a foot seems steep though. Can't you buy it by the foot from ACS?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
From: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
Hey Joel,
Couple of questions:
Why is the Tygon any better than Gates Barricade or similar vapor blocking
hoses?
Is the cost of the Tygon really $2 per foot? If so, you wanted it badly
enough to be willing to buy a whole roll. What's so good about it?
Thanks,
Mark
>
| Quote: | 1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
> Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
|
| Quote: | From: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)>
Kitfoxers,
> I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
|
| Quote: | roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the
header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)
>
|
| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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I just listed a kitfox lite on barnstormers only $6,500 W/ n# it would Make a great 2ed plane for the snowbird.
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43(at)gmail.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com (msm_9949(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | For starters, you can see fuel flowing from the wing tanks through tygon. It's a comforting sight at 9K feet above lake Michigan. 2 bucks a foot seems steep though. Can't you buy it by the foot from ACS?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
From: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: napierm <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
Hey Joel,
Couple of questions:
Why is the Tygon any better than Gates Barricade or similar vapor blocking
hoses?
Is the cost of the Tygon really $2 per foot? If so, you wanted it badly
enough to be willing to buy a whole roll. What's so good about it?
Thanks,
Mark
>
| Quote: | 1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
> Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
|
| Quote: | From: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)>
Kitfoxers,
> I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
|
| Quote: | roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the
header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)
>
|
| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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dj45
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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And the problem with crossing Lake Michigan is???
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Do not archive
Dan Stanton
N801S CH 801
N226BS CH701
N24DS CH750 |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:25 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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C'mon, Dan.....you've got nothing but water under you for up to an
hour, and given the problems that you and I have had with engines
(and as for me, running out of fuel), is it worth taking the chance?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1215 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Jan 11, 2012, at 9:29 PM, dj45 wrote:
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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my budy flew the big lake 5 times in a drifter w/ a 503 and lodis floats. he spends moor time flying over land with floats on than water sometimes. he did get lost over the lake once no compus. ended up turning north for a while had to land in 6ft swells and re fuel almost died but made it. re fueled with the motor running. I herd the roul is 50 minuts in 50% water and you have a 50 50 chance of dying.
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
C'mon, Dan.....you've got nothing but water under you for up to an
hour, and given the problems that you and I have had with engines
(and as for me, running out of fuel), is it worth taking the chance?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1215 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Jan 11, 2012, at 9:29 PM, dj45 wrote:
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite airport.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly <patreilly43(at)gmail.com (patreilly43(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Marco Menezes <[url=mailto:msm_9949(at)yahoo.com]msm_9949(at)yahoo.com (msm_9949(at)yahoo.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | For starters, you can see fuel flowing from the wing tanks through tygon. It's a comforting sight at 9K feet above lake Michigan. 2 bucks a foot seems steep though. Can't you buy it by the foot from ACS?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
From: napierm <[url=mailto:napierm(at)cisco.com]napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)[/url]>
To: [url=mailto:kitfox-list(at)matronics.com]kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: napierm <[url=mailto:napierm(at)cisco.com]napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)[/url]>
Hey Joel,
Couple of questions:
Why is the Tygon any better than Gates Barricade or similar vapor blocking
hoses?
Is the cost of the Tygon really $2 per foot? If so, you wanted it badly
enough to be willing to buy a whole roll. What's so good about it?
Thanks,
Mark
>
| Quote: | 1. 08:15 PM - Tygon tubing 5/16 id (Joel)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
> Subject: Tygon tubing 5/16 id
|
| Quote: | From: "Joel" <[url=mailto:foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com]foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)[/url]>
Kitfoxers,
> I've located some yellow Tygon fuel line for my model 5, but had to buy a full
|
| Quote: | roll of it. I'm selling eight foot lengths, enough for both wings to the
header
tank lines for $20 with pre-paid shipping anywhere in the U.S. My old fuel
line was getting brittle and made wing folding problematic.
Joel Mapes
[url=mailto:foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com]foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com (foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com)[/url]
>
|
|
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated
or ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely
on the probability of having trouble over the water being very, very
small).
You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home
airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to
you quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them.
With average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up
in the drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes before you are
exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be there before
that happens.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
| Quote: | 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point
from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over
water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire
time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some
might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your
favorite airport.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, MI
On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
<<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>
>Pat Reilly
>Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>Rockford, IL
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did our
emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in the
hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in the
foothills of the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in. The
question, " What would have happened if we had had to put the airplane down
30 minutes later. Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at
a fire station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes. Thirty
minutes later we would have been over the Desolation Wilderness just West of
Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on scene within an hour. No advice
offered, but I suppose the risk management might be a little tighter next
time. Within a month or so of flying the New Model IV.
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
| Quote: |
Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or
ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the
probability of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home airport
there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you quickly.
And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them. With average water
temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the drink you'll only
last about 30-60 minutes before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any
rescue will have to be there before that happens.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
>2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from
>Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each
>way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it
>shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so
>than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>
>Marco Menezes N99KX
>Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>Hersey, MI
>
>On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
><<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>
>>Pat Reilly
>>Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>Rockford, IL
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of engine failure occurring precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water was very small. As an added precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that, worst case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side. Finally, concluding that the longer any flight, the higher the risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
Hersey, MI
On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in the foothills of the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What would have happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later. Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of flying the New Model IV.
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>
>
> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the probability of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>
> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them. With average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be there before that happens.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>
>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>> Hersey, MI
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly <<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>
>>> Pat Reilly
>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>> Rockford, IL
>
>
>
>
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
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|
Marco,
I think you nailed the risk management idea. My wife works for UAL and
flies mostly to Asia and Australia. My phone has an app that follows ATC
controlled flights. It was interesting to find that all trans Pacific
flights are within a relatively short distance from land. To Beijing for
example it looks like they might be in visual contact with the Aleutians,
then down the coast of East Asia. To Australia, they pass within an hour of
Hawaii etc. I think you planned well.
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:11 AM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
| Quote: |
I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of
thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the
end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of
engine failure occurring precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water
was very small. As an added precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going
"feet wet" calculating that, worst case scenario, I could glide to a beach
landing on either side. Finally, concluding that the longer any flight,
the higher the risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
Hersey, MI
On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did
> our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in
> the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in
> the foothills of the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in.
> The question, " What would have happened if we had had to put the
> airplane down 30 minutes later. Well we were on the ground less than a
> mile from EMTs at a fire station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within
> five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation
> Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on scene
> within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk management
> might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of flying the
> New Model IV.
> Lowell
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
> To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>
>>
>>
>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or
>> ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the
>> probability of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>>
>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home
>> airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you
>> quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them. With
>> average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the
>> drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes before you are exhausted
>> and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be there before that
>> happens.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point
>>> from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over
>>> water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire
>>> time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some
>>> might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite
>>> airport.
>>>
>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>> Hersey, MI
>>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
>>> <<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>
>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>> Rockford, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
|
|
Has your model got THAT good a glide ratio? When I did the mental
math....with NEVER a thought of actually doing it....it seemed like
there was a section in the middle of the flight that was a "no-man's
land" (or no-man's water in this case) where if the problem occurred
there, you would not be able to coast to either shore. Plus, the
winds would have to be very favorable for this to come out well. I
can understand the situation you are in, Marco, living straight
across from Oshkosh, or nearly so. My geographic location favors the
southern go-around, even though it adds about 45 minutes to the
flight for me. But that's an easy, non-puckering, flight for
me....pretty much over farm land all the way....and one that I'll be
making this Friday if the weather holds, and there's snow at Pioneer
Airport. (Annual Ski-plane Fly-in there)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1216 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
| Quote: |
I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot
of thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big
water. At the end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide
that the risk of engine failure occurring precisely during the 30
minutes I was over water was very small. As an added precaution, I
attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that, worst
case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side.
Finally, concluding that the longer any flight, the higher the
risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
Hersey, MI
On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when
> we did our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put
> both of us in the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out
> of Cameron Park in the foothills of the Sierras on our way to
> Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What would have
> happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later.
> Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire
> station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes.
> Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation
> Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on
> scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk
> management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or
> so of flying the New Model IV.
> Lowell
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
> To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>
>>
>> <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
>>
>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided,
>> mitigated or ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure
>> suit, or rely on the probability of having trouble over the water
>> being very, very small).
>>
>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home
>> airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get
>> to you quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for
>> them. With average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if
>> you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes
>> before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have
>> to be there before that happens.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest
>>> point from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30
>>> minutes over water each way and in contact with lake reporting
>>> service the entire time. For me it shaves hours off the trip.
>>> Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes
>>> in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>>
>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>> Hersey, MI
>>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
>>> <<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>
>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>> Rockford, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
|
|
I did the calcs back then when i first did it Lynn and at 10k MSL there was theoretically enough air underneath to make it across if engine quit at the halfway point. This assumed as you noted, no headwind. Both times I did it, leaving early from Ludington heading West, air was dead calm.
Marco Menezes N99KX
On Jan 15, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Has your model got THAT good a glide ratio? When I did the mental math....with NEVER a thought of actually doing it....it seemed like there was a section in the middle of the flight that was a "no-man's land" (or no-man's water in this case) where if the problem occurred there, you would not be able to coast to either shore. Plus, the winds would have to be very favorable for this to come out well. I can understand the situation you are in, Marco, living straight across from Oshkosh, or nearly so. My geographic location favors the southern go-around, even though it adds about 45 minutes to the flight for me. But that's an easy, non-puckering, flight for me....pretty much over farm land all the way....and one that I'll be making this Friday if the weather holds, and there's snow at Pioneer Airport. (Annual Ski-plane Fly-in there)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1216 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
>
>
> I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of engine failure occurring precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water was very small. As an added precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that, worst case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side. Finally, concluding that the longer any flight, the higher the risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
> Hersey, MI
>
> On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in the foothills of the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What would have happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later. Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of flying the New Model IV.
>> Lowell
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
>> To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the probability of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>>>
>>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them. With average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be there before that happens.
>>>
>>> Mike G.
>>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>>> Phoenix, AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>>>
>>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>>> Hersey, MI
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly <<mailto:patreilly43(at)gmail.com>patreilly43(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>>> Rockford, IL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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