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Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

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db308

Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 7

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Greetings,

I am considering installing Mod 68 Electric Flap on my Classic. Has anyone done this mod? What are your thoughts? Does it make retracting the gear easier? (my main reason for doing the mod).



Regards,

John Baker, #181.

Australia.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

John

no, flap retraction requires very little force, the flaps are almost aerodynamically neutral, consider where the flap pivot is. The only load you feel is the drag load, normally very low.

You will note that in flight you can place the flaps anywhere and they will stay put if you let go the flap lever. Unless the gear elastic has gone loose then the weight of the gear will pull them down.

Graham

        From: db308 <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, 17 January 2012, 22:34

 Subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "db308" <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net (dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net)>



Greetings,

I am considering installing Mod 68 Electric Flap on my Classic. Has anyone done this mod? What are your thoughts? Does it make retracting the gear easier?  (my main reason for doing the mod).



Regards,

John Baker, #181.

Australia.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364142#364142

-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List         - sp;               -Matt Dralle, List Adm========

ivanshaw(at)btinternet.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Don’t do it

 

Ivan

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

Sent: 18 January 2012 00:31

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

 

John



no, flap retraction requires very little force, the flaps are almost aerodynamically neutral, consider where the flap pivot is. The only load you feel is the drag load, normally very low.



You will note that in flight you can place the flaps anywhere and they will stay put if you let go the flap lever. Unless the gear elastic has gone loose then the weight of the gear will pull them down.



Graham



 

From: db308 <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net (dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

Sent: Tuesday, 17 January 2012, 22:34

Subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

--> Europa-List message posted by: "db308" <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net (dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net)>



Greetings,

I am considering installing Mod 68 Electric Flap on my Classic. Has anyone done this mod? What are your thoughts? Does it make retracting the gear easier? (my main reason for doing the mod).



Regards,

John Baker, #181.

Australia.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364142#364142

-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List        - sp;               -Matt Dralle, List Adm========



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  [quote][b]

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Hi Ivan



I hear what you say loud and clear:



"Donâ€™t do it" as far as leaving the flaps between detents.



I am curious though, why not?



Thx.

Ron Parigoris

ivanshaw(at)btinternet.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

I linked the flaps to the mono wheel to stop me from landing wheels up!!

The flaps provide a strong visual clue on approach that you are in the 'landing configuration'  that is with gear down and locked. Separate them and ???? Also why add 'cost weight and complexity' [the enemy of the designer] to your aircraft?



Kindest Regards 

Ivan



--

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Hi John,



No doubt you have seen a few responses on this.  I have about 1000 hours on my mono and I was finding that pulling up the main & flaps was heavy.

I found that the bungee's were just getting a bit tired and after I replaced them the gear retract was back to the lighter touch from when I first built the airplane.  I know changing them is a bit of a pain, but it really ends up being an afternoons works once you get started.

 



BTW, is your mono the one located at Murray Bridge ? 

Cheers,  Paul



On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:34 PM, db308 <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net (dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "db308" <dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net (dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net)>

  

 Greetings,

 I am considering installing Mod 68 Electric Flap on my Classic. Has anyone done this mod? What are your thoughts? Does it make retracting the gear easier? (my main reason for doing the mod).

 

 Regards,

 John Baker, #181.

 Australia.[b]

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Ron, 



Apart from not wanting to make an enemy of Ivan, there is an additional reason (if you would even need one).  



Part of getting the outriggers to lock is accomplished by the momentum of the gear swing up.  I suspect that an electric flap drive may not achieve reliable outrigger locking.

 



Paul



On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivan Shaw" <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>

 

 I linked the flaps to the mono wheel to stop me from landing wheels up!!

 The flaps provide a strong visual clue on approach that you are in the 'landing configuration'  that is with gear down and locked. Separate them and ???? Also why add 'cost weight and complexity' [the enemy of the designer] to your aircraft?

  

 Kindest Regards

 Ivan[b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Ron

there are other reasons why it isn't worth doing, no big advantage on take off unless you are seriously heavy.

Flapless landings wouldn't be easy, if it's windy do a wheeler with good view over the nose, (that's only for skilled tail wheel drivers)

No real point, the compromise works well. Important to adjust the shock cord correctly though, and keep it in good condition]Graham

        From: rparigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2012, 17:34

 Subject: Re: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>



Hi Ivan



I hear what you say loud and clear:



"DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do it" as far as leaving the flaps between detents.



I am curious though, why not?



Thx.

Ron Parigoris





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364204#364204





=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

_ref="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matronibsp; Thank you for your generous nbsp;             -Matt Dralle, List Admin. [quote][b]

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:32 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

 	  Quote: 	
		  Part of getting the outriggers to lock is accomplished by the momentum of the gear swing up.  I suspect that an electric flap drive may not achieve reliable outrigger locking.

	




Sorry Paul but you have lost me mate. The outriggers only lock when the wheel/flaps go DOWN. 

Are you saying the outriggers 'retract' better with the momentum of the wheel swinging up?

Cheers

Kingsley from the home of the Banana benders. 



Sent from my iPhone

 [quote][b]

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Sorry mate, I meant to say down.  I think I have been living in the wrong hemisphere for too long.



On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:25 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:

 [quote] 	  Quote: 	
		  Part of getting the outriggers to lock is accomplished by the momentum of the gear swing up.  I suspect that an electric flap drive may not achieve reliable outrigger locking.

 



	






Sorry Paul but you have lost me mate. The outriggers only lock when the wheel/flaps go DOWN. 

Are you saying the outriggers 'retract' better with the momentum of the wheel swinging up?

 



Cheers

Kingsley from the home of the Banana benders. 



Sent from my iPhone

  	  Quote: 	
		  



3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

On a sort of related subject, what does one do if the outrigger hangs a bit low in the retracted position?

Kevin



On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:15 AM, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com (paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]Sorry mate, I meant to say down.  I think I have been living in the wrong hemisphere for too long.



On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:25 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  Part of getting the outriggers to lock is accomplished by the momentum of the gear swing up.  I suspect that an electric flap drive may not achieve reliable outrigger locking.

 



	






Sorry Paul but you have lost me mate. The outriggers only lock when the wheel/flaps go DOWN. 

Are you saying the outriggers 'retract' better with the momentum of the wheel swinging up?

 



Cheers

Kingsley from the home of the Banana benders. 



Sent from my iPhone

  	  Quote: 	
		  



3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	




	


[b]

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

 	  Quote: 	
		  Sorry mate, I meant to say down.  I think I have been living in the wrong hemisphere for too long.

	




Thanks Paul, we'll let you off this time ..... on both accounts!

Best regards

Kingsley

do not archive 



Sent from my iPhone

[quote] 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

db308

Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 7

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Thanks to all who replied to my request on Mod 68.



Taking note of replies, especially from Ivan, I will change the bungees which have been on the a/c for 13 years & 900 hours flt time.



The reason for my request is I am 80 yrs young & suffered a hernia. I don't

blame the Europa, I am positive the cause was doing the washing up!



Regards to all.

John Baker.

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:14 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

John,



you are just amazing!



This is something what I have always thought: 

Europa keeps us young and pressures to take some 

good care of us.

Cheers, Raimo Toivio





Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417



Updated flight hours /landings: 258,15 /466



37500 Lempaala

FINLAND



p +358-3-3753 777

f +358-3-3753 100



toivio(at)fly.to

www.rwm.fi





-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- 

From: db308

Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:52 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Electric Flap Mod 68 on 

Classic




<dino.agnes(at)internode.on.net>



Thanks to all who replied to my request on Mod 68.



Taking note of replies, especially from Ivan, I 

will change the bungees which have been on the a/c 

for 13 years & 900 hours flt time.



The reason for my request is I am 80 yrs young & 

suffered a hernia. I don't

blame the Europa, I am positive the cause was 

doing the washing up!



Regards to all.

John Baker.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364649#364649



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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: Electric Flap Mod 68 on Classic

Quite agree!  And gives me hope that I will still be able to fly when I

finish in 30 years time....after the longest build in history

Will 



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